Yes, hence why I said “unfortunately we get the Heathrow 27s again”. As in they land on runways 27L and 27R.
I recently complained to Heathrow about an incoming aircraft at around midnight. The response:
“Heathrow has some of the strictest restrictions of any hub airport in Europe in terms of movements permitted between 11:30pm and 6:00am. Heathrow is restricted to 5,800 take-offs and landings a year during these times.”
Oh, only 5,800 per year, that’s OK then. Seriously, where is the protection from noise pollution?
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I often feel as if I’m living in a different Forest Hill than many of the users on this forum. I sit in my garden and occasionally see airplanes very high in the sky, and would certainly argue they do not fly over 2-3 minutes a day. They do make noise, but I am able to speak normally to the person across from me. I’m wondering if others forget that they live in a major global city and not in the country. I am actually shocked by the energy and time spent communicating with London City Airport and Heathrow about this. Surely, don’t you think the noise pollution from the South Circular to be louder?
I’m not here to be glib but like I said, I’m shocked by the energies and perceptions of the neighbourhood.
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Yeah I’m kinda intrigued by this all as it really doesn’t seem so bad where I am in HOP. But I wonder whether it’s because the se23 area changes in altitudes.
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This means you are almost certainly in one of the parts of the postcode not under the very concentrated flight path of City Airport. We moved to Lowther Hill in 2014 before it existed and apart from Covid it has been problematic directly over our back garden since 2016. Lucky you!
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Nope, sorry. I’m a few streets away from Lowther Hill and have been for some time. I find the general street noise of our neighbourhood far more polluting than air traffic overhead. I’m not saying there aren’t planes overhead or I can’t hear them, but the forum would make one believe we live next to the runway. I barely noticed the planes until this thread and now that I do, I still think it’s a low priority considering the other polluters that are right here in Forest Hill. (I should also note, I probably often don’t notice most of the planes still because I don’t think they’re that loud or every 2-3 minutes).
Also, I do move around the neighbourhood and can report not being bothered by the sight or sound in other areas of FH.
I should note I am also underneath a flight path, so I do see these planes throughout the day. I manage to enjoy my garden, so yes, I suppose I’m lucky.
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The best place for plane spotting in SE23 is the car park behind Sainsbury’s. Come and sit next the the sad silver Mercedes that’s been abandoned for a couple of years now with a sign saying ‘will be gone in 2 days’ akin to the ‘back in 5 minutes’ signs we so love in shop fronts. You won’t be able to hear the planes due to the constant drone of refrigeration units from diesel lorries idling while waiting to unload.
You can easily see both approaches - watch with baited breath as the flightradar24 tracks bi-sect in 2D and see for real how the A380’s pass a couple of thousand feet above the Embraer 190s.
If that doesn’t grab your fancy then Horniman Gardens is also nice - the extra 250ft in height puts you that much closer to the planes!
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No, that’s fine. I’m happy to spot them from my garden. It’s far more preferable than sitting in the Sainsbury’s car park. In fact one has gone over as I read your reply. I don’t need to waste my time on flightradar when I could finish my book and sip coffee before getting back to work. Thanks!
I guess it’s all subjective. I’ve never been bothered by aircraft noise, but the rhythmic bass from music makes me feel physically ill. It affects my heart.
I used to enjoy seeing the planes go over (especially Concorde!) but I was sitting with a visitor in my garden once and when a plane went over he scowled at it and very pointedly stopped talking till it had gone. But I wouldnt have even registered it if not for his reaction (which I found a bit odd, as he does holiday by plane).
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I’m with you @marymck. I especially find this irritating on early weekend mornings when I abide by the unwritten code that we’d like a little bit more peace and a little less rhythmic bass parked outside a window from an idle car, etc.
I suppose I fall in the camp with you of not registering these plane sounds and find it strange to spend time sending off emails to LCY and LHR when there are other far more in our face and ear noises happening at street level. C’est la vie.
I’m with you on this Mary; I’m not bothered by the aircraft, but I don’t understand why people who feel the need to play music very loudly have such appalling taste and I really miss Concorde.
I have to admit that, where I live, I used to get more noise from the early morning buses struggling along the south circular than from planes. The switch to hybrid has improved my sleep a lot. But there are occasional motorbikes and airplanes at 4am or 5am that will wake me, despite the windows being shut (the worst bikes are noisier than the planes). And the early morning planes are much reduced since Covid. The problem was it wasn’t just one plane, but they were 4 minutes behind each other - lined up to fly into Heathrow for connections to other European destinations before 9am.
And I’ve definitely sat in the garden of All Inn One pub unable to speak for 30 seconds due to a plane going overhead.
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Can’t understand your ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude. A little empathy would be nice. You are very lucky not to have low flying flightpath over your house & garden everyday when we have easterly winds which happens most days in spring & summer.
I have lived in my house in Forest Hill for over 40 years & have always had Heathrow’s planes over head & I to enjoyed seeing concord. Heathrow planes are quieter & fly at a higher altitude around 4000 feet.
All changed in 2016 when London City Airport changed its arrival flightpath to a much lower altitude using very noisy planes that can land on its short runways. Lewisham residents were not informed of the proposed change, there was no consultation.
It is not only Forest Hill that is affected, other areas are also affected & complaining to the relevant authorities. There are local MP’s involved as well.
I object to your statement about wasting time complaining, flightpaths are under review so you might get low flying planes disturbing you & your families everyday life if the flightpath changes to over your house.
Finally aircraft pollution is a real problem & falls on us below.
Traffic & aircraft pollution are both very polluting, some experts say that aircraft pollution is as bad in London as traffic pollution.
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Le sigh, I pity those at LCY, LHR and the MPs who are at the receiving end of your copious email complaints. Perhaps, you didn’t read my post where I did indeed say I was under one of the regular flight paths and am concerned about noise pollution (I’ve not mentioned air pollution as this is a different topic to touch on).
I grew up underneath an actual low flying flight path of an international airport and SE23 is small potatoes. And I mean all areas of SE23, not just an individual garden or at the horniman.
Perhaps, you should keep a decibel reader and see that the sound of our actual street level noise is far more noticeable than the planes that fly overhead. I mean that seriously and not flippantly.
I will stop engaging with this thread as I don’t enjoy the general trend this forum has for picking away at mundane things. Any further complaint to me will go unread and unreplied to.
Does anyone know of any way to crowdsource noise readings?
I found this Crowdsource noise levels of restaurants and bars in your city - SciStarter which is a nice idea but focused around bars an restaurants.
There are plenty of decibel meters in app stores, but it would be interesting to see noise level comparisons right under the flight path versus a few streets away and other parts of town. Don’t forget that sound propagates as an inverse square of distance so the further away you are it gets quieter relatively much quicker, so some people might not quite understand the issue of being right under the flight path.
The issue here is that the approach is such a narrow corridor that you either live right under all of it, or you’re never any closer to it, so it doesn’t appear to be such a big deal.
I wonder if we can organised a shared Google maps page and drop some pins and geotag some readings. Would be good to do planes, trains and automobiles as a comparison.
Heathrow or City?
Obviously you’re not under the CONCENTRATED flightpath that others are referring to, where things are as described by those affected.
This is not affecting a whole area, this is affecting those who are directly under the flightpath.
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That would be a good idea as it would be a huge help to people who might be contemplating moving to one of those streets affected by plane noise if that’s the sort of noise that bothers them.
But I’d say it’s about more than decibels. Like I said earlier, it’s rhythmic bass music that bothers me and that’s not about the decibels.
And children screaming. Why? I don’t mean when they’re scared. I mean the look at me, look at me I’m having fun and my parents are indoors with the door shut or just don’t care, so I will scream and scream and …
We had one child in Mount Ash Road who did it all summer long. Eventually they grew out of it, but then another one started. Bliss when they stop though. Makes you appreciate school time…
Sorry for the digression.
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I think this would be a good start but I suspect it is more than just dB at play here. Never bothered me but I am not a light sleeper and have also lived much closer to LHR so perhaps used to it. For someone who is a light sleeper then I can see an issue. Also if close to where they turn can exacerbate things due to the extra turbulence and acceleration, more of a change in timbre then noise level from my own observation.
It is unusual in that London allows flights over densely populated areas. Other world cities plan things much better so odd that there is resistance to building airports in better places.
Surprisingly our former mayor did have one good idea. And new airport for London in the Thames Estuary made so much sense, not just by creating an airport suitable for the size of a city like London, but for the ability to create a super port combining rail, air and sea. And flights could be diverted away from London overflight.
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Yes, I do.
For a few years I have used Explane , developed initially for Schipol campaigners but now useable worldwide which allows you to measure 10 seconds of airplane noise with your smartphone. It has been calibrated against very accurate monitoring equipment and is accurate enough for this purpose.
I tried to encourage others locally to have a go a few years back but there wasn’t much interest.
If you look at the data on the website you will see UK decibel readings, listed by city and by postcode. There are quite a few historic readings from SE23. Many of them are from my back garden or the top of Horniman Gardens.
The app also identifies the actual aircraft and its destination, and automatically assigns the postcode of the place you are standing.
ExPlane is the app to register aviation noise
Available at Google Play and Appstore now.
The app gives you the possibility to record airplanes and measure their Decibels to give a real picture of the noise nuisance experienced by residents living near airports. This gives residents, action groups, politicians and the press the data they need to convince politicians of the seriousness of this nuisance.
Thee are problems with recording a max decibel like this, in that airports use more sophisticated average decibel metrics which disguise the actual disturbance people experience.
The difference is like the difference between an hour either with Concorde overhead just once at 100db and no other noise or an Embraer overhead at 65 db 15 times in an hour which does happen.
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