I use the OG most often, but we shouldn’t lose an entire service, even if that means southern/thameslink will need to make some of their fly through services stop.
The loop line is east west and not serviced by the OG so they can’t say that service is a duplicate.
The OGs abysmal service levels need formally investigating as the thought of not having southern as a back up is sending shivers down my spine. If southern aren’t running anything then the OG will need to run at service levels closer to target (not finishing early at 11pm, no terminating at shadwell, no weekend closures etc).
If you need to get to the area around London Bridge, Waterloo or Charing Cross for work (as we do in this house), then the absence of Southern services makes the journey longer, more stressful and much less pleasant. It’s also made journey times to Brighton much longer - coming back on Sunday took 1hr 46mins (journey planner gave a 2min interchange at Norwood Jun which obviously wasn’t possibly), years ago that journey was possible in 58 mins on a good run. I have written to Vicky Foxcroft, but haven’t had a response - which is disappointing- I engage with her office a fair bit for work in her Shadow Ministerial role, and they’re usually fairly responsive.
I agree we should look at a more concerted joined up campaign - map out the decision makers, routes to power and influencers and come up with a plan of action. We need some volunteers!
Quite frustrating that if we lived further out, say Orpington (zone 6) we’d have quicker journeys and more options (London Bridge, Victoria, Waterloo and Charing Cross as well as SW London routes) than we do here!
The fact that they kept the southern trains running over the weekend, when the Overground was suspended, shows that the two services are already being used to cover each other.
This makes me believe that if we had no southern service, we’d have a more reliable overground. Which I’d be in favour of.
But obviously I could be wrong. We could end up with no southern and a still terrible overground. In which case we’d be a bit stranded.
Although I’m as unhappy as everyone else about Southern not operating almost all the weekday services from and to our local stations since Christmas they have been running weekend services since May except when there has been been engineering work on the lines!
Given how long this thread is getting I thought I’d bump the Southern response to Ellie kindly shared on here:
So perhaps worth waiting and see where we are at the end of the month.
In terms of campaigning, commuters outside of London often seem to be much more vocal. This might have something to do with the general demographics. They also tend to have it a bit easier to find an audience and a way into the media. London transport is usually seen as exceptional from outside the capital - suggesting otherwise doesn’t make a very good story.
Possibly relevant communiqué received from the Mayor of London just today:
Noting the paragraph “This is a chance for you to ask the Mayor and London Assembly Members about the issues that matter to you.” it would be interesting to see if concerns over Southern rail performance could be constructively addressed.
Also as a Perry Vale Councillor and London Assembly Member, I wonder if Sakina Sheikh may be able to help the cause - contact details here: Sakina Sheikh
I went into Central London today and decided to try the Southern rail route, reverse to Norwood Junction into London Bridge and returned that way (I am recently retired so freely admit I can avoid the rush hours so I am not so severely affected as those working).
To be fair, it was OK, with the obvious caveat that the travelling time is double what it would have been if trains go from Honor Oak to London Bridge. However…
a) it does take double the time
b) Norwood Junction as an interchange has a subway, stairs, no lifts, so…
c) the Norwood Junction interchange is really unsuitable for those who are not able bodied or who have heavy luggage (compare to New Cross Gate which does at least have lifts)
On the way back I changed at London Bridge to get the Norwood Junction flyer. I saw the “departure board of shame”; every destination on the London Bridge Board had a departure time except for New Cross Gate, Brockley, Honor Oak Park, Sydenham etc which just said “speak to staff”. What are the staff supposed to say I wonder? We’ve given up on these stations perhaps? Next time I will take a photo, might be good for the MPs.
The more negative press southern receive, the better, whether from Brighton or London.
It’s good (?) to see that others are complaining hard.
Why has LNER been able to announce a return to it’s pre-covid timetable when southern are still on the floor?
Our services should be benchmarked against other inner London localities with similar population densities. Rural areas/smaller areas aren’t a fair comparison and I’m sure people outside of London are aware.
I have noticed that at Forest Hill station there is a fancy sign stating that Lewisham has been designated a centre for Culture in 2022 (I’ve forgotten the exact wording) thats all well and good but to attract people to the area the transport has to work.
As an aside I’ve heard no more from our MP or the Mayors office bar acknowledgement of my emails
I did get a response from Vicky Foxcroft. She’s apparently had “over a dozen emails” on the subject - I’m sure we can get a few more in there though, so do email if you haven’t yet… She has a meeting with Govia “in the coming weeks” and hopes “to invite all affected constituents”.
It was pretty busy today on the Overground - almost back to pre pandemic levels of crowding. Given that many people are still WFH, at lat part of the week, we need our Southern services back asap.
It would be helpful if Lewisham Council could run a consultation to find out who has been affected by the withdrawal of service, using their ‘Lewisham Life’ magazine and their website.
I don’t know if anyone has realised that 12% is probably unattainable.
If we say average sickness is about 5% ~ 10 days a year that means they have 7% excess sickness (blamed on COVID) and equates to 4.5m people with COVID at any one time. Or they have an incredibly sickly workforce in safety conscious times
OR.
They are including holidays. The legal minimum holidays is 10.7% (28/261) - most people get over 12% (32/261) - railway workers get more than statutory +4.
Basically if they are including holidays the 12% requires staff to never be sick AND not use all their holidays
Good and depressing point. Suggests that Southern has very little intent to reinstate the London Bridge / Victoria service). And even on the London Bridge / East Croydon service the longer it is not there, the risk is they just get used to not running the service. I’m sorry if it appears that I do not trust Southern, but to be blunt I don’t.
Not quite sure of the logic here. Average sickness is more like 2% in normal times according to ONS but is much higher in some work settings due to the pandemic. I know in Education has been roughly 15% in some schools but this isn’t just due to COVID illness but isolation requirements too. It is not an answer anyone wants but I don’t think 12% is out there.
