Yes, I have noticed a lot of cyclists and motorcyclists with little cameras stuck on their hats. And, don’t worry, I have been dangerously passed by any number of drivers and know just how it feels.
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I have been told in the past, though not by the police, that a driver’s brain will sort of mirror the space between you and the kerb as they overtake and pass you by the same amount, so if you cycle slightly further out from the kerb most cars will give you a wider berth.
To be honest I didn’t believe it until I tried it. On a lot of occasions the cars did actually give me more room. But I’m not actually cycling in the middle of the road just slightly further from the kerb. Although I do cycle in the middle if I’m coming up to a traffic island and I can sense the car behind is likely to try to squeeze past me in a dangerous way. In situations like that I do take up as much space as possible just to prevent being hit or forced off the road.
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I’ve had people yell at me for cycling in the middle of the road. They look really confused when I point out that I’m actually in the middle of the lane and not the middle of the road, which is actually the white line. They need to get more annoyed about the oncoming traffic which prevents them overtaking, not the cyclist in from of them who is reducing overall traffic. The really ironic thing is I was doing at least 20mph in a 20 mph limit zone and they’re still overtaking and then yelling at me whilst stopped at the next red light.
Also remember a speeding car will do a lot more damage than a bicycle on a pavement - you only have to search the forum for the word ‘crash’:
Car flipped over on Forest Hill Road
Big crash outside Syd station - Part of Sydenham road closed
Crash on Woolstone Road
Another Cranston / Woolstone Crash
Car crash by Sainsbury’s
Garthorne Road car incident
…and I can’t even find the one where they destroyed the FHSoc planters in front of the old Barclays.
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In terms of cycling in the road, it is important to not cycle near the curb, which is dangerous for you the cyclist in many ways and gives you no space to react. I also found it was where most potholes were, and you need to be able to move for obstacles.
In terms of cycling, always assume people (be they pedestrians, cyclists, cars, bus drivers, lorries etc) will do something stupid, as invariably they do, and if you expect this to happen, or allow space to react to this, you will be much safer. I’ve been cycling in London since my teens, and only come off my bike twice, once completely my fault in a park taking a corner too quickly (broke my elbow, not recommended) and once when someone decided to open a taxi door right in front of me without looking (and to be clear the taxi was not parked).
Always make sure you wear a helmet, and if oyu are not confident on the road try some group sessions or see if people are happy to cycle with you for a bit and / or choose quieter cycle routes.
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The highway code makes a distinction between the ‘shoulds’ and the ‘must’. No riding two abreast is one of those ‘shoulds’. Compare it to rule 97 for drivers: “Before setting off you should ensure that switch off your mobile phone”.
I wonder how many of us actually switch off our phones before starting a drive in a car? I’ll be the first to admit that this is not part of my driving routine and nobody would ever be arrested for non-compliance with this ‘should’.
The rule about not cycling on the pavement is a ‘must’. But it is confusing because of the number of places where there are shared areas for cyclists and pedestrians that pedestrians sometimes mistake for pavements, and there are pavements that cyclists sometimes mistake for shared space. I have also encountered adult cyclists who were sure that it was legal for them to cycle on any pavement.
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Are we missing a broader point here?
E-scooters are legally limited on public roads. Why? Because when people choose to use them, those people are choosing an unsafe method of transport for the public highway, which makes them especially vulnerable.
Arguably it would be safer if e-scooters rode in packs, ten abreast in the middle of the road, “reducing overall traffic” (to borrow a notion from clausy).
But’s that’s not what lawmakers chose to recommend regarding e-scooters. Instead, they encouraged people to choose safer, more appropriate methods of transport for busy roads.
I don’t think cyclists should be banned from the road. But I do think cyclists should take responsibility for their choice of transportation mechanism, and if they feel unsafe, they should definitely consider safer forms of transport, rather than getting upset about the situation, digging their heels in and behaving in reactionary fashion against motorists.
They should also have the right to criticise dangerous driving. Most importantly they should feel as safe as is possible when sharing the roads with tonnes or metal that have the potential to hit them at any point if operated badly by fellow road users.
I admire the bravery of every cyclist in London and as a driver I try to do the best I can to keep them safe, even on the rare occasions when they are doing something really stupid.
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This will never happen, but I would love for every car driver to have to also do a motorbike test as part of the driving license, as nothing teaches you awareness on the road for you and others as riding a motorbike.
// this isn’t a serious suggestion
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In a similar vein, if all cyclists were drivers and all drivers were cyclists, I think things would be generally better and certainly I feel a better cyclist and driver for that.
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This is classic victim blaming. Next you’ll be telling me I shouldn’t be cycling in heels or that I should dress a bit less seductively when I go out.
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You think so? Going back to my example, are e-scooter riders being “victim blamed”? Or are we simply trying to keep people safe?
Phil, unless things have changed recently, I don’t think E scooters are yet legal on the road or anywhere else unless they are hired. I think you point probably remains a valid one, though.
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yes, that’s my point, thank you. After a few accidents on the road, e-scooters were seen as unsafe, and they were banned (with the caveat you mentioned). The police are now quite heavy handed with anyone that buys an e-scooter and takes it on the road.
Some might argue the lawmakers/police are “victim blaming” e-scooter riders.
Others will see this as a pragmatic approach to road safety that recognises the road is designed for large, heavy, fast-moving vehicles.
As such, roads are naturally an unsafe place for people to ride on lightweight devices that lack seatbelts, mirrors, airbags, side-impact bars, crumple zones etc
You’re thinking of motorways. Roads are designed to be shared with motorcycles, bicycles, horses etc. That’s exactly the point of this thread. Make roads safe for cyclists so they don’t have to cycle on pavements. The horses and bicycles have been around longer than cars.
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Actually, I wasn’t thinking of motorways, but no worries.
No one “has to cycle on pavements” any more than cars have to park on pavements. If there’s no parking for your car, don’t buy a car.
I would say that the point about e-scooters is pure whataboutery.
Let’s just focus on push bikes, and the fact that they are considered “unsafe” forms of transport. That’s something some of us want to change, and others don’t. It’s as simple as that.
e-scooters are brand new, the role they play in transport, and the laws around this, are still being worked out. Bringing them into this conversation is disingenuous.
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Welcome to the forum, Phil. I am not sure what you mean by the above - e-scooters have not been banned as such - they were never permitted. The law and enforcement was clear from the early days of the Segway. If anything, it’s been relaxed in recent years despite widely publicised fatalities such as the one at Battersea Bridge - the DoT has clarified the circumstances in which they will be permitted.
If I am mistaken, happy to stand corrected if you have some sources. As for police reactions to e-scooter riding, I’d be interested to learn more about what you mean. Enforcement doesn’t seem to be taking place in and around SE23 in my experience.
I’ve not seen many scooters being ridden around SE23, though I must say I did see some policemen issuing a ticket to an e-scooter user on Waterloo Bridge when I cycled past a couple of days ago. My understanding is that the penalty for someone with a driving licence can be severe, including penalty points etc.
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I think this is an important point in two ways.
- Are they considered unsafe by some but are actually safe OR
- They are considered safe by some but are actually unsafe OR
- A bit of both.
The first point is about people feeling confident to ride on the road - so feeling safe.
The second point is how we can make the roads actually safer for cyclists, which will also aid point 1.
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Difficult to define what “safe” is. It’s more of a feeling isn’t it? So inexperienced cyclists are more likely to feel unsafe, and experienced cyclists consider it safe.
For me personally, I feel like it’s pretty safe to cycle around London, but was a bit nervous when I started out.
I do often get into occasional arguments with drivers, there’s a lot of road entitlement and generally bad attitudes. I’ve had a few hairy moments caused by aggressive drivers. Luckily these types of people are becoming more and more of a minority.
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