How is this anti-social? Because you have to drive slower?
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Anti social in the same vein as learners, tractors and people who like to drive less than the limit.
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A group of cyclists can be treated like a car or a tractor so you can plan your overtake and youâll be on the wrong side of the road for less time. Motorists also give more space to a group.
A row of cyclists takes longer to overtake - lorry length rather than car so youâre on the wrong side for longer - and many drivers misjudge and pass too close.
And just as itâs nicer to chat to your passenger if their next to you rather than the back seat, if you are out for a leisurely ride, the same applies.
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Iâll try to provide an analogy for the benefit of those whoâve never been in a car stuck behind cyclists riding 4 abreast:
Imagine youâre walking along the pavement at a pace of 3-4 mph (average walking speed), and group of people ahead of you are barely moving at 0.5 mph, four abreast, holding hands, taking up the entire pavement and preventing you from passing.
I hope you didnât have anywhere important to go. To continue your journey at reasonable pace, youâll need to step out into the busy road and walk around them, with all the danger that entails. And every other pedestrian travelling at a reasonable pace will have to do likewise.
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I wonder how that group of cyclists would react to an equally widely spread out group of pedestrians? If walking towards them then the cyclists would obviously have to dismount and wait for them to pass. But if walking in the same direction?
Or a group of cows or ponies sauntering along in the same direction? Are they happy to fall in behind them for miles? Not from what Iâve seen.
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Unfair analogy because forcing pedestrians into the road is not a fair comparison to forcing cars to overtake in the opposite lane.
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Phil,
You have mistakenly taken a picture of four cyclists riding in pairs to suggest they are riding four abreast. Blow the picture up, check the wheel positions and you will see the telescopic view is misleading. You are, perhaps, the unwilling victim of the anti-cycling brigade that threaten us on a daily basis by promoting this myth.
I know that road very well (near Sheffield Park) and they are riding as recommended both for the safety of the cyclists and motorists leaving more than sufficient room to overtake and minimising the length of overtake.
If you rode more you would know this. It frightens me that you donât and may develop completely unnecessary road rage which is a danger to all of us.
Peace.
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I was referring to pedestrians walking in the road when thereâs no footpath and to livestock and to horse riders in the road. Itâs not an unfair analogy at all. Many cyclists donât know how to handle those situations. Iâve been in an oncoming (slow moving car) when cyclists have spooked ponies into oncoming traffic, rather than exercising patience.
As it happens, Iâm in the New Forest today, where tractors usually pull into laybys or gate entrances when available if a long line of traffic has built up behind them. I have never once seen a group of tourists on bicycles do that, although many local lone cyclists would. Itâs just about seeing the other road userâs point of view. No oneâs always a cyclist, always a pedestrian or always a motorist. Thatâs the advantage we humans have over livestock! They just panic!
Replying to nobody in particular, Iâm going to remain optimistic that itâs possible for all users to share the limited space weâve got. Itâll mean that we have to move away from the traditional thought that roads are solely for cars (vehicles) and pavements are solely for pedestrians. The current system was presumably put in place when only pedestrians and cars needed catering to, but thatâs no longer the case. Cars have had it their way for a very long time and times have now changed.
Most people will be respectful to other users, and like you get some car drivers who think itâs ok to drive at 50mph along Dartmouth Road, youâll unfortunately get some inconsiderate cyclists and scooter drivers. Theyâre not the majority though.
Itâd help a lot if 20mph was widespread, and actually enforced. Cyclists donât actually like cycling along the pavements, they do so out safety concerns. Roads have much flatter surfaces and are void of obstacles like uneven pavements slabs, bins, lampposts. Iâd assume cyclists would prefer to be on the road and donât come onto the pavement out of preference.
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Stuart, watch the video (itâs a video, not a picture), and youâll see the cyclists are in a formation at least four abreast during most of the time. Which is why Vine describes them as â2, 3 and 4 abreast like thisâ The fact that theyâre veering in and out of formation makes the situation even more unpredictable and dangerous for other road users. Unfortunately this is common behaviour from cyclists in my experience.
As a cyclist myself, Iâm careful to cycle in a predictable and considerate fashion, and if Iâm holding up traffic on the road (roads, which are built primarily for vehicles), then I will often stop and get out the way to let cars pass. Generally Iâm out on my bike for fun, whereas most motorists have places to get to, passengers/cargo to carry, and things to do.
But anyway, letâs not get sidelined from the actual topic in hand. And please avoid making provocative arguments about any other commenter being susceptible to âroad rageâ or being a âdanger to us allâ. That sort of jibe doesnât add anything to the conversation at all.
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Just as an aside - there seems to be little or no issue here in Portugal with riders taking up their share
of the road. Everyone seems happy and chilled enough to slow down for a few mins until it is safe to overtake. Most drivers give heaps of room when overtaking and there seems to be little heat, at least in my experience so far. Iâve done about 4500km and had one very slightly aggressive driver who overtook a lorry and veered into my lane - thatâs it! Maybe it is because people are used to overtaking here (itâs a national sport) or it is just a more chilled place in general but I would get more hassle on one Sunday ride in the UK than I have all year here.
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How so? She described a different situation to you.
sorry, got my wires crossed there
Canât win can you - cycle on the pavement: bad! Cycle on the road: bad!
Here are 2 handy educational comments from Road police on the issue.
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That is very interesting Clausy. Although logical and correct advice as far as the WM Police is concerned, I wonder how many of us would feel safe following the advice to remain in the centre of the road as a single cyclist. It all rather depends on whether the driver behind the cyclist is aware of this doctrine. I doubt I would last very long doing following that advice as I cycle round this part of the world; or anywhere else for that matter apart from in Portugal perhaps.
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Indeed, @Thewrongtrousers. Actually. it turns out the (unverified) WM Police âTraffic Investigations Unitâ Twitter account were in error with their advice about âriding two or even three abreastâ:
From the Highway Code
Itâs there in black and white, alongside the clear rule that cyclists shouldnât ride on pavements.
Whatâs more, the âtwo abreastâ provision probably only exists to allow one cyclist to overtake another where necessary.
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Yes, I agree, thatâs what sadly puts a lot of people off cycling. I think itâs why youâll find that itâs not a âwar on carsâ itâs simply a desire to get from A to B safely. If youâre interested in how it feels to be aggressively passed by a âprofessional driverâ then feel free to watch the black cab in the second part of this short video where a taxi driver gets behind me, beeps at me and then forces himself past. Heâs getting reported to the police. Lots of cyclists have cameras now in âself defenceâ. https://twitter.com/clausym/status/1434536843870146573
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