@anonSE23 was questioning the reliability of one of your sources (in much the same way you are questioning the facts presented by the govt). How do we go from this to making broad assumptions about a persons attitude to risk?
We’ve heard your view of why the coverage and fear is overblown and also about how the country should manage the situation, but nothing about the possibility of it being worse than you expect or there being insufficient healthcare provision.
Also there have been 673,622 cases to date in the UK to date. If 99% of people survived 6736 people would have died.
43,293 people have died. By ONS statistics over 50,000.
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Please can we avoid personal attacks - they don’t improve the discussion in any way.
Previously we have had some interesting data and differing viewpoints, and that’s fine, but from the FAQ, please:
Answered in PM 
Now, if anyone would like to continue the discussion on topic, that would be great. Otherwise please contact @moderators privately to avoid further fouling the discourse
Judging by my daily experience travelling to and from work and seeing people out and about in the west end still a good 20% of people dont wear masks or observe social distancing (just use the interchange at Canada Water station to see what I mean)
The track and trace app relies on people actually using it-I have lost count of the amount of times I see people not bothering to scan in at restaurants or my gym.
I use it purely because I would rather know if I am likely to have come in contact with someone with the virus because I care about my loved ones and dont want to put anyones life at risk.
Many people clearly dont give a damn.
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I was shielding as I think I have said before the 1st time. But having got used to face, hands, space etc…I am not going to again unless it seems like it is getting out of hand again. As has been said already, if everybody respected the rules, then maybe we would be able to get on with our lives while living with the virus.
I don’t do anything to particularly put me at risk. I only meet with friends (3 or 4 at the most) who I know are sensible like me. Any shops that look particularly crowded I wouldn’t go in & always look to open windows on buses. I haven’t been on the tube, as I’m avoiding the crowds.
It is a lottery & I could go out later & catch it, but what do you do?
We all have to be mindful & look after each other as best we can.
Of course if track & trace worked properly, then hooray!
I haven’t downloaded the app as my phone is too old, but I’m happy to give my contact details where necessary or pre-book to go to the Brockley Jack.
Just wondering what the data source was for that, particularly what the relevance of the ‘since June’ part is…
According to the BBC:
That is five to 25 times more deadly than a seasonal flu infection, despite ongoing myths that Covid is just like flu.
Aside from that, they’re mirroring your stats but not necessarily the conclusions. Partial lockdown is about trying to balance infection (and therefore hospitalisation) rates by varying the amount of lockdown whilst keeping as much of the economy and education system going as make sense.
The area that troubles me is that the Government strategy is basically there will be an effective vaccine early 2021. That is rightly, Plan A. But what is Plan B if it takes longer to get a vaccine (remember that the Govt said life would be normalised in November!). Sorry, it could be years.
I don’t think Plan B of going back and forth into lockdowns for potentially years is realistic. COVID clearly results in deaths. But so I would argue does lockdown (economic collapse, people not going for cancer treatment because they are scare of COVID, depression, suicide, increased domestic violence etc etc). Remember that in any other situation we would describe lockdown as a lamentable disaster - because it is - you enter into it only to prevent a worse disaster (But lockdown is still a disaster).
So what we need is a Plan B - how to live with COVID without lockdowns. There is currently Government silence on this and this needs to end. I suspect the answer is an Asian model of effective track and trace and the ability to test frequently. Not that we seem to be close to this.
I agree 100% with this. We will always be near a vaccine that may not come for years, how do we deal with that scenario and look at the overall picture for the population, trying to protect as many people as possible.
Independent Sage briefings provide more analysis and clarity than the government seems willing to share every Friday at 1.30 on YouTube. Also on catch up. Yesterday they published a plan to get us to a kind of stability. A plan that the government will probably ignore.
Ah yes David King. Another yesterday’s man. The man who told us to switch to diesel cars.
Was that a bad decision given the information available at the time?
presumably you mean to discredit Independent Sage for some reason. I’d recommend anyone to have a look at their work.
From this Guardian article …
David King, who until last week served Labour and Tory governments as special representative for climate change, said he was misled by carmakers over the amount of poisonous nitrogen oxides (NOx) diesel cars would emit on the road.
One might have hoped that a Government scientific adviser would not have been “hoodwinked” by car manufacturers but would have relied on truly independent research instead. But then, I suppose what research is truly “independent”? Regardless of the content of the self-identifying"Independent" SAGE report and whether I may think their suggestions sensible or not, the members have a political bias, personal axes to grind and David King loves the limelight.
The problem went right to the top, German govt and poor quality regulations / checks and balances at the EU level. This documentary is brilliantly researched and exposes the whole rotten lot:
https://www.netflix.com/title/80118100?s=i&trkid=13747225
I don’t think the U.K. govt could have done much more to defend us from this - the rot was at the highest level.
Okay folks, this is starting to get a bit wide of the topic here which is “London Moving to Tier 2”
Interesting as other information is, please can we try to stay on that topic, or start a new linked topic.
Thank you!