What involvement in slavery did Frederick Horniman have?
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No. Big game hunting is vile. The walrus will be one of the things to go 
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Frederick Horniman was not a slave trader. He was born 2 years after slavery was abolished in the British Empire.
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I take your point. As @HannahM says he was born after the Slavery Abolition Act 1833 however this notably excluded “the Territories in the Possession of the East India Company” including Sri Lanka (then Ceylon) which was obviously known for its tea plantations. I don’t know when abolition was expanded to include those territories? So I’m not sure of his personal involvement (perhaps none?) but undoubtedly the family whose name he bore (and which now adorns the museum) would have been involved.
Whether this means a museum name change should take place in Forest Hill is a matter for debate (including this one) but I believe the more transparency the better.
Reevaluating and updating the names of certain buildings and prominence and location of certain statues seems like the minimum that should be done.
Maybe it pays to be sure before you call for things to be renamed?
The archives of Hornimans Tea are held at London Metropolitan Archives. Perhaps a research project?
There is no doubt affordable tea that made John and Frederick Horniman their fortune was produced in part through horrific exploitation of workers throughout the British Empire. A fact the museum very rightly acknowledge. However is our moral ground so high? Thought recently about how the food on your plate, the clothes you wear or electronics you use are so affordable and disposable?
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Only if the public, as opposed to an activist minority, want to do so.
Our straw poll (admittedly just a small handful of voters so far) suggests forum members prefer to keep the Horniman name intact:
So I would be skeptical of any suggestion that a majority of people want to rename the Horniman.
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Does it? We’ve been family members there for years and I had absolutely no idea. While I’m falling foul of my own mistrust of straw polls with a sample of 1, surely you only take action if there is a significant problem and you have to weigh the pros and the cons.
Like I said, balance.
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The obvious thing to do is rename it Colston Hall and then erect a statue of Horniman at the bottom of Bristol canal. That way the people upset about Colston are happy, the people wanting the Horniman museum renamed are happy, and the group who like statues in canals are happy.
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I agree it’s important to separate the links to trans-Atlantic slavery with the wider legacies of (British) colonialism, as both issues are raised by the various campaigns to remove/rename memorials.
To be clear: Horniman is not associated with the slavery of Africans. Rather his and his family’s fortunes were made importing tea from British holdings in India (as well as China).
Tea production was (and in some places is to this day) carried out by “indentured” and forced labour. I think this is where the Horniman Museum gets singled out as part of a problematic legacy. This is combined with debates around the removal of artefacts from their countries of origin, which of course applies to many museums in London and worldwide and is a separate, but related issue.
Personally I agree that there is a distinction to be made between the likes of Colston (who directly profited from the slavery and murder of African people) and the likes of Horniman (who built capital on the exploitation of workers and expropriated land). The latter is obviously still an important and uncomfortable issue, which, let’s face it, is hardly consigned to the past.
I think the Horniman Museum does a good job of bringing this legacy up, and think it is a much more useful educational resource with the name and legacy of Horniman intact and open for critical reflection. I think a generic renaming of the museum would potentially weaken this message.
The same cannot be said for statues, which generally do nothing to educate people on the history of the figures who are glorified.
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So it’s OK for me be told to start a research project? But I can’t suggest someone else start a protest movement? @ForestHull how do the rules apply?
Yes 
Although I’m not sure that’s what we are discussing…
It was a bit of a tongue in cheek suggestion featherbelly!
I’ve never heard of anyone suggesting changing its name outside of this thread so this seems to be a storm in a dolls-house tea set…
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And the point is Horniman made money from something that was seen by most as a legitimate and acceptable part of the economic system at the time. Plenty of people see the exploitation of workers and animals to produce very cheap consumer goods as a legitimate and acceptable part of our economic system today. Let he who is without sin and all that.
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@neilw thank you for articulating what I was failing to!
I think in part the emotive nature of this thread was caused by the language of the original post (which was subsequently edited and toned down) certainly from my perspective.
The point is that we are being asked to listen to a minority, however you want to label them (activists, political movement, a m*b, etc). And what the “majority” want is not necessarily going to align.
Is it right that Horniman should come under scrutiny? Yes. Is the debate over? No.
Let’s see where this leads.
Apologies if I upset anyone.
So was mine… Winky face and all but my post got pulled.
We should all go and knock this topic about in the pub, putting the world to rights.
Oh.
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No apologies needed. The Horniman is much loved in these parts and people feel very protective of it. That does not mean we can shy away from the more problematic parts of its history.
We should never glorify people who exploited others. However as a history student and former archive researcher I am wary we do not judge the the decisions and actions of those in the past by the morals of today. If we do that everyone, including our past selves will be found seriously wanting.
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Yes. I know that. I was asking another poster, who seemed to think Frederick Horniman was involved in slavery why he thought that.
Of course, I understood that, sorry for making it seems as though you didn’t. Limitations of the reply system!
I was saying it for the benefit of those who might not know, as there didn’t seem to be some confusion/conflation of the issues.
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@ neilw please accept my apologies. I’m feeling a bit over sensitive I guess.
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