That’s not really true. Leninism and Stalinism led to that… Marx’s philosophies underpinned certain modes of thought that led to the gulags and five-year plans which resulted in mass starvation and all those deaths you speak of.
And many of Stalin’s and Lenin’s statues HAVE been destroyed.
By your logic we should therefore destroy all of Jesus’ statues due to all of the subsequent deaths that have been committed due to his philosophy?
A fitting resting place, some would argue 
[quote=“featherbelly, post:66, topic:14823”]
Quote from Featherbelly: “As people are fond of doing right now, I’m going to employ the “Jimmy Saville argument”. All of his charitable good works and deeds do not erase his crimes. And neither should they in the case of slavers…”
I didn’t say they did! Please read my post in its entirety if you’re going to comment on it. (Sorry I’ve messed up the quote formatting).
And let’s not forget other religious prophet(s) who by modern standards are pedophiles and war criminals.
Yes, if we’re going to judge the past by modern standards, we’d better be prepared to destroy churches, temples, mosques and more. Is that acceptable?
Yes — we have lost one statue to a watery grave which has now provoked a huge and instant rethink of policy towards these monuments across institutions and government. Clearly showing that by and large these curators and decision makers realise that changes need to be made, and soon.
Without this bold and symbolic act this would probably not be happening.
It’s not exactly the Taliban* (edit. ISIS) in Palmyra.
*It was the Taliban who destroyed the Buddhas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamyan#2001,_destruction_by_the_Taliban.
I did read your post. What have I misunderstood?
I think you’ll find that was Daesh.
But let’s not get off topic.
It seems you’re saying if these if these statues had never existed in tribute to their good deeds then no one would know about them, and by extension their bad deeds would also be unknown/forgotten?
Which works on the premise that you need a statue of any historical figure in order for them to be remembered, which probably isn’t completely valid…
I will try to be clearer. The statue of Colston came about because he had donated so much money to Bristol. If he hadn’t done so there would have been no statue and he would have been long forgotten. There were hundreds of others who also invested in companies that profited from slavery. But as they have no monuments they are sanitised. Portuguese, Dutch, Belgian and African slavers fall into these categories. No memorials therefore no memory of their appalling deeds.
There are many who continue to profit from or feed the profits of those who benefit from modern day slavery. The monuments to those people are pension funds and the latest mobile phones and gadgets (powered by batteries produced in the most appalling circumstances) yet I see no rioting to tear those down.
[Edit to say this post crossed in the ether with @featherbelly’s previous post]
If I were responsible for the public realm I may similarly be tempted to make a knee-jerk response to the recent activism, purely for appearances, self-preservation and to keep the peace.
But if I were more noble, I’d stand up for the rule of law and for democratic action instead.
By the way, @moderators, I’m happy for my non-Horniman related posts (alongside those of others) to be migrated to a new topic in #ethikos where we could continue the broader debate without distracting from the local issue of the OP
I’m pleased the map of monuments to people with questionable pasts is encouraging debate, and I hope some are removed in due course. Although I don’t think the horniman museum which serves a greater purpose than a simple monument, and is open about its founders past, is in the same category as monuments to slave traders. Moreover, I’m not sure that all parts of this discussion and the language used from the outset are apolitical as this forum strives to be…
Okay I think it’s time for a tea break here to slow things down a little 
Let’s please keep this on topic and avoid political discussions as per the site FAQ.
This topic was automatically opened after 16 minutes.
Possibly true, but impossible to know. One thing is for sure, there would have been no statue of him to send for a swim, so perhaps some other statue would have met this fate.
Slavery itself, of course, would not have been forgotten.
If there is no memory of their deeds then it stand to reason you that no one (including yourself) would have knowledge of them…
If there is a lack of common knowledge then this of course should be addressed by making sure any evidence of this past is properly recognised and taught in schools so the next generation does not live in ignorance, as well as through information boards by any buildings or monuments that do exist, or a remodelling of monuments to reflect our modern understanding (as Banksy suggest).
This is a lot to unpack. But firstly I would say — there have been lots of protests against capitalism and for social justice and democracy (e.g. the Occupy movement, Extinction rebellion). The pension funds and modern day wage slaves you mention are part of the capitalist firmament… And these are continually and regularly protested against.
The #BlackLivesMatter protests are not “riots” and are legitimate and largely peaceful demonstrations. Like many protests sometimes violence occurs but this is sometimes down to police tactics, agitators planted into otherwise peaceful demonstrations, and of course the occasional bad actor.
The #BlackLivesMatter protest in Bristol could have potentially erupted in violence had it been policed differently. Of course you may believe that the toppling of Colston’s statue was itself a violent act — I would disagree. It was not state sanctioned but it was a focussed and deliberate act to remove a specific symbol of colonial glorification, and not an act of spontaneous or random violence.
There is of course human-trafficking and genuine slavery which is a somewhat different thing, and equally as abhorrent as that which occurred in the past. And there are many organisations dedicated to tackling such modern injustice, e.g.
https://hopeforjustice.org/modern-slavery/
This isn’t a valid comparison.
No one is falsifying or destroying history here.
In fact it is about reassessing whether those figures deified by statues are worthy of praise when the subtotal of their lives is appraised with the virtue of a true historical record.
It is righting the wrong of whitewashing all of the unpalatable parts of history that were never taught. Modern freedom of access to information has shone a bright light in the darker corners of history and we should all be willing to reassess our opinions accordingly.
How would be have conducted this at present? I don’t see a viable alternative to postponement
Agreed- so it should be removed from the thread.
I stand by the comparison as a worrying attempt to nullify history and the context in which it was created. As a society we have made progress in leaps and bounds - and the Horniman has done a great job of acknowledging this. If you haven’t already, do go and visit the World Gallery. I am BAME (Jewish) and am in no need of being schooled about my own history or that of other minorities or to be told what should offend me and what should not.