I think part of the pedestrian / car problem is that the station entrance is framed by large planters with an additional pinch point created by ticket machines. This forces pedestrians into the road, mixing them with vehicles. Here’s a Google Earth view showing the situation (where amusingly the wall is under repair!):
Closing the WHSmith side of the car park, and opening it up to pedestrians (and moving the bike rack) will probably help those on foot, but I think that without a through route for vehicles the single entrance could become a log-jam backing up onto the South Circular. I guess trials will show if this is an actual problem or not.
Still, better would be to do away with that tiny car park entirely and redevelop the entire station front to some sort of pedestrian friendly piazza. At the same time a new entrance could be developed at the end of platform 2 with a proper turning circle for vehicles and step-free access from the Perry Vale side (without having to go all the way around).
I think Network Rail may even already own the triangle of land there add it’s often used to store railway equipment:
I think the vast vast majority of people are walking to the station. Suggesting they walk the long way around the pavement isn’t realistic - it’s barely wide enough for one way footfall with all the ATMS and stuff, let alone when the station is busy.
It’s simply unnecessary to need to drive around the loop when it’s easy to turn around in the car park. For anyone with accessibility issues, you can still drop off right by the station entrance. It is unlikely this will inconvenience anyone, whilst making it a greener more pleasant experience for the majority of station users.
Bear in mind it’s a 6 month trial, so everyone will have plenty of time to comment on how much they love or hate it, I’m happy to hear the whole ‘woe is me, war on cars’ lament.
Let’s also not forget this has been a huge effort (try getting any change through Arriva, network rail, TfL and NCP all at the same time during Covid) by a group of volunteers who just want to make Forest Hill a nicer place to live, make the air just a tiny bit more breathable and as I said, not have to dodge cars whilst trying to make it to their train having battled the crossing that we can’t do anything about because TfL are basically bankrupt. You have to start somewhere.
Personally I’m just pleased something is being tried, even if it may not be the whole or a perfect solution. It’s much better to try something rather than sticking with the same problems and complaints.
Indeed. From acorns forests grow. Thank you & your volunteers.
Although we dont drive to the station to use the train when I finish work late and arrive at the station around 10pm my husband often picks me up from there in the car-if there were no car park there would be nowhere to wait to meet those travelling.
Likewise elderly relatives that come to visit need picking up from the station.
We do at least need short stay parking for these reasons.
You make some excellent and constructive points. The current layout does present issues for pedestrians, the planters and ticket machines do create a pinch point, this will not be an issue when that side of the car park is pedestrianised. The bike rack also creates the feel of a very narrow pedestrian walk way which is not helped by the empty newspaper dispensers.
The creation of a car park on the Perry Vale side of the station is an interesting concept, but unfortunately unlikely to gain traction due to the costs involved.
An £18k spend means this trial is highly likely to be made permanent, otherwise it could be perceived as a frivolous vanity project by those who may have reservations about the changes or as you describe them the woe is me, war on cars people.
I would suggest, that if possible, a yellow box junction is placed in the road by the single entrance/exit. Selfish (not all) car drivers do currently block the entrance creating further congestion on the south circular. I’m sure the fine revenue would cover the cost of installing a camera and painting the road markings.
It may be an idea to add an option to the poll along the lines of ‘I frequently cycle to the station’ to ascertain the value of any future spend on new racks.
I assume that pollution data for the car park area will be collected prior to the commencement of the trial, during the trial and at the end of the trial in order to provide factual evidence of the improvement in the air quality.
As previous contributors have said all power to people who are prepared to give up their own time in an effort to make improvements to the area, they certainly deserve recognition and it would be unfortunate for clumsy language by those involved in the debate to hinder their efforts. Let’s hope the scheme is a success for all station users.
As long as there’s adequate space for cars to drop-off and pick up passengers, especially those with mobility issues, I’m in favour of the part pedestrianation of the car park, but like others I fear the congestion of using just one entrance/exit than the current two.
In all honesty, moving those bike racks and newspaper/magazine bins would make a lot of difference to walking into the station without the need for pedestrianation.
I’m always in favour of improving the local neighbourhood and welcome the funding that looks to have been provided.
However, in light of the world events of this last week, couldn’t some of this £20k money be given as a donation from our community to help those in Ukraine, or those that are likely to come to Lewisham in the coming months ?
Firstly the planters we have in mind are designed to be movable i.e. they will have wheels in case the scheme does not become permanent - we can redeploy them somewhere else.
Secondly I don’t work for the council let alone TfL so I can’t ask anyone to paint yellow boxes on major London arterial roads. We can’t even manage to get them to talk about a pedestrian crossing at the back of the station.
We a) don’t have the money yet anyway and b) can’t choose to donate it to a charity of our choice instead. There are plenty of other ways to go out and help. See Forest Hill Library - UPDATE - Donations for Ukraine for example.
Any plans to redevelop the station will take years, it’s probably a 5 or 10yr + plan which will no doubt take much longer.
I can only imagine the mind numbing red tape and hurdles that was involved to get this approved. So thanks to whoever was involved to get this small improvement for the short term. You have to make a start somewhere.
In reference to loosing the car park… we are very lucky to have one at all and we have two car parks! Unfortunately the small car park couldn’t be in a worse position. A drop off bay possibly, but I think switching vehicle use to the other side is more sensible and also improving that entry in general… anyway that’s all in a few decades thinking.
Please can we have some nice planters on the other entrance to though…
We put in a fairly long response to the strategic Lewisham Local Plan here Forest Hill Society: Lewisham Local Plan Consultation to raise the issue again and try to join up some of the sites under consideration for redevelopment. I’m honestly not sure what the status of that is.
Seems like with everything that has happened in the last couple of years, network underfunding, Covid and reduction in travel (and thereby revenue) it’s going to be next to impossible to get anything moving in respect to station redevelopment. I’d think that soaring inflation adds to borrowing and higher building material costs and will further put off developers. It’s a complex site that involves Lewisham Council, Arriva, TfL and Network Rail.
clausy, nice to read your updates but what has National Council on Independent Living got to do with making improvements to Forest Hill carpark ? you may know what the abbreviations mean but not sure all local residents do.
The Neighbourhood Community Infrastructure Levy (NCIL) is a community funding programme that uses money collected from developers.
The Community Infrastructure Levy (CIL) is a non-negotiable charge that developers pay to councils on most new developments. It is used to deliver the infrastructure needed to support development.
Maybe it’s the colour used and perhaps looking a bit faded. I also approach from Pantry so don’t really get to appreciate them… perhaps some strategically place ones up that stretch would also help with pavement parking?
I note it looks like the two cash machines at the station front have now been closed, so the ticket machines could now be moved down to make a bit more space at the entrance.
As a bonus, the cash points very likely have rear access for refilling with cash, which could possibly be used with appropriately designed ticket machines. At the least there will be electricity.
I don’t drive, but I will occasionally get a cab from outside the ticket office, if I’m carrying heavy, bulky luggage or bags. Even if I arrive on a Southbound train, it’s often easier/less risky to take it over the bridge using the lifts, than to try to negotiate the steps down to FH Cars, especially if I don’t have a hand free to grab the safety rail. And if I’m arriving Northbound (eg from Gatwick), it’s obviously more convenient to exit on that side and phone for a cab to collect me from outside the ticket office.
Maybe it’s the colour used and perhaps looking a bit faded. I also approach from Pantry so don’t really get to appreciate them… perhaps some strategically place ones up that stretch would also help with pavement parking? 