Yes I think for a long time we’ve needed something doing to stop this rat-race.
It isn’t dispersing the traffic to other roads like people are suggesting it’s the opposite - it’s stopping the main road traffic from South circular and Honor Oak road being dispersed along predominantly single-lane residential streets like Devonshire, Benson, Ewelme and Tyson Road.
There was a discussion in the House of Commons, finished just now, about similar issues across London and the introduction of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods which has proved contentious in places - I think the reasons are very specific to local circumstances and cannot be generalised.
Which is illegal but never enforced. A car passed us a couple of weeks ago - we thouight the window glass was going to break as the vibration was so extreme.
Can only hope.
We have raised this issue many times before on this forum. Along with improving the highstreet crossings to favour SE23 pedestrians. Neither of which have had much traction, unless I’m to be corrected…
Not to deter from the main issue causing this traffic but the snail-like pace of the poxy pavement improvements doesn’t help the flow of traffic.
We live on Devonshire Road between Woodcombe Crescent and Ewelme Road, and have only been caught in traffic a handful of times this year, which tends to move reasonably quickly, and I don’t personally think the situation is that dreadful - partly also because I can’t see a scheme that would make matters much better without being a significant inconvenience for people living on the road. But something has happened in the last week or two to greatly worsen the issue. The only thing I can think of, as @HillLife alludes above, is the gradual moving of the pavement works back towards the South Circular, which narrows the road to much more of a pinch point where they’re currently doing the works. Hopefully matters will improve greatly when that work is finished.
The traffic is there every evening. Not as bad as it was last night, but it’s always there in the 7 odd years I’ve lived here.
It’s not so much residents getting caught in traffic that’s the concern but mostly the noise and air pollution damage it’s doing to our road.
Just highlights the volume of traffic and how effective it is normally is as a rat-run. Also, highlights that the council dont see it as a major road otherwise there’d have put in traffic management provisions. Worst of both worlds.
It seemed the traffic was worse than usual everywhere I went yesterday. I found getting around by bus from early afternoon onwards took much longer than usual and coming home was a nightmare with a lot of buses serving Forest Hill being turned round before their usual destination as they were running so behind schedule. Apparently it was caused by the number of people worried lockdown won’t finish on December 2nd and who were driving to shopping centres and retail parks trying to get their Christmas shopping done!
Hi all,
Firsly, @Runner_Rich I assume you’re the same Richard who has emailed me. If so, thank you for all your work and suggestions on this. I was going to send you an email response but thought it would make sense to reply here for all to see.
So, by way of update (apologies in advance for the long post):
Many local residents (and previous councillors) have been campaigning for this for a while. Much of the funding we have for traffic schemes come from TfL/ the (London) Mayor’s Office. My understanding is that, when Sadiq Khan became Mayor of London, the focus for this spending shifted towards creating healthier neighbourhoods (rather than facilitating traffic flows), which enabled us to start more of these kinds of schemes.
Our focus, as Leo said, was on the Healthy Neighbourhoods Programme. The idea of these is to make areas more pedestrian/ cycle friendly and prevent rat running but with a focus on an area as whole, rather than individual street(s). This is because, as many people have already said, addressing traffic in one street often has consequences for the neighbouring streets; flows of traffic are quite complicated to anticipate/measure and this has to be looked at in the round. The borough was divided into 18 “cells” for the purposes of the HN programme - Forest Hill ward straddles two cells (with the relevant cell for our purposes being the one whose edges are London Road /Wood Vale/ Honor Oak Park/ Devonshire road)
The work involved in the creation of an HN (or LTN) is significant (it involves extensive surveys, consultations, engagement, iterations etc) and costly and we don’t have the funding to deliver all 18 at once. So these were prioritised (as Leo says on the basis of things like air quality and collision data, as well as feedback from residents and resident engagement). FH wasn’t in the first 4 being prioritised.
Building on the work that residents (and Michael A) had done, we started a working group to focus on (1) developing ideas for reducing traffic in this area (2) campaign for FH to be prioritised. We held a number of meetings, organised for officers to come and see the ward and met with Sustrans to look into working with them on a survey/ map of ideas. The next steps, prior to COVID, was for residents to canvass as many streets in the area as possible to understand whether there was local support and work with Sustrans to develop ideas to then put to the community. The reasoning behind this was to evidence community engagement, and existing proposals, both of which would be factors in prioritisation. @anon5422159 although this came from residents who are favourable to HN programmes (as I am), the idea was very much to engage residents and seek views, as these kinds of programmes don’t often work without local engagement and support (eventually none of this would go ahead without a full consultation anyway).
COVID has paused our work; partly because as a Council we’ve had a lot of work elsewhere and partly because funding shifted from the HN programme towards the streetspace one (creating space for people to walk/cycle during COVID - read about it here - https://lewishamcovidtransport.commonplace.is/)
Under the current scheme, residents can suggest schemes on Commonplace (same link as above). These will then be taken into account and prioritised by officers. As ever, the funding is limited so the priority has to be the worse roads, and not all road can be looked at a once.
I’d encourage people to submit ideas and engage with Commonplace. Alongside this, I’m still keen to explore other options - I’m arranging a call with officers to discuss what these could be. Happy to update on this thread.
Hope this is helpful.
Sophie
I understand your concerns, but would disagree with the assertion that the traffic is there -every- evening. Quite frequently on a Thursday I drive down Devonshire Road at around 5:30, and most of the time it takes a minute at most to turn right onto the South Circular.
Hi @SophieDavis, yes, that’s me, thanks for the update.
I understand from Ellie Reeves’ office that a second tranche of the Emergency Active Travel Fund has been made available to Authorities to fund a well-thought-out Low Traffic Neighbourhoods, I believe there’s an opportunity here to consult the community, and implement a smart and well considered scheme.
Please let me know if you need any help in engaging the community.
There was also the gas pipe replacement work on Waldram Park (A205). Many vehicles used the whole length of Devonshire Road to avoid that section of the South Circular. And then there were a couple of exceptionally busy days, when everyone was shopping before the lockdown started.
I think that the one-way traffic option would be creating an efficient streamlined slip-road to the A205, and much appreciated by commuters, but nothing good for residents, however.
The Highways Dept regards Devonshire Road as “strategic” and Councillor Davis did agree with that assessment at one of the traffic meetings I attended. But if Devonshire Road is strategic, please can the strategy be made available? I did ask Highways, but they were unwilling or unable to disclose that information. Finding out what the policies are, how decisions are made, always seems to be met with either silence or tons of irrelevant information.
Personally I would favour closing both ends of Devonshire Road, which would put an end to ‘rat running’ in the entire grid of residential roads between Devonshire Road, Honor Oak Road, and Honor Oak Park. It would be much slower for residents who drive, to get in and out of the grid, but a price worth paying.
I think the ‘strategic’ nature is that over-height vehicles need the ability to turn off before the bridge.
But that doesn’t mean you need to allow right-turns onto Devonshire Road from the A205 (or right turns out of Devonshire Road onto the A205). In fact if it is only strategic for that reason you could block the exit onto the A205 and only allow entry from Eastbound A205 - no more rat-run.
Yep this is why I think my suggestion of a one-way system in the direction of FH end to HOP end would work. This will have no impact on other roads apart from the south circular - which is as it should be anyway that the traffic is kept to the A roads instead of spilled out onto the residential roads
Also with introduction of no right turn from south circular into Devonshire road. Lorries can still divert before the bridge coming fromso it ticks that box.
This stops Devonshire road being a rat race in the morning with cars coming off the south circular and cutting through in HOP direction and also stops the rat race from HOP direction in the evenings.
Residents get their road back…
No annoying car horns beeping at each other every evening at the A205 junction and at each other because the road is too narrow for them to drive down.
No idle traffic sat outside our houses.
No two-flow traffic that results in cars damaging resident’s parked cars.
Congestion on main roads affects every ajoining road.
Traffic congestion causes a ripple effect and cascading failure.
The closure of Beadnell / Garthorne to through-traffic would have contributed directly to the problems on Devonshire Road.
By closing roads and forcing longer journeys, more roads become saturated with traffic. Closing road A doesn’t just move traffic to road B. It moves traffic to B, C and D.
It’s worse than a zero-sum game.
But the whole reason people are coming down Devonshire Road is because it’s just there and available to use as a cut-through. What other roads would people use as an alternative other than to have to follow the south circular or Honor Oak Road? I can’t think of one…
Well, yes. The FH-HOP traffic used to be shared between three routes.
Now it’s shared between two.
And you’re proposing it’s funnelled down just one.
Honor Oak Road is a residential road with three schools on it, for goodness’ sake!
Yes but it is also designed for its purpose - its wide enough for buses!!
I also meant Honor Oak Park not Honor Oak Road but both of them are suitable for two-way traffic, have zebra crossings and traffic lights.