Cyclists and motorists with no/ poor lights

General
#1

I had a bit of a rant on my blog about this recently, as I find it SERIOUSLY annoying. People unable to understand that something as simple as cheap decent lights, or hi-vis clothing can make such a big difference, when using the roads at night, or low light conditions.

Standing out, being seen in someones mirrors before they turn, being visible in among the sea of lights that the roads become at night, head lights, tail lights, shop lighting, street lighting, advertising. A £2 dull light won’t cut it. Nor with obscured lights, no lights, or lights which have not been turned on.

When I do ride in low light conditions I make an effort to stand out. But when I am driving, I spend lots of time tracking where cyclists in dark clothing and no lights have gone since I last saw them. Will they pop out of nowhere etc.

It is a nightmare, but such a simple one to solve. I really do wish more would take this more seriously, and take a little responsibility for their own well being.

The same goes for cars driving with no lights on, defective lights, fog lights for no reason etc. Whoever thought lights on vehicles used on the roads could be so complex and make such a difference.

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#2

Some people are just stupid. I posted up last week about it after nearly turning into a cyclist who had no lights and was wearing black.

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#4

I get the impression from speaking to people that claiming “it’s not my fault” reverses any injuries or loss of life. Seems to be the case that others should look out for people, and if you are not to blame, you simply can’t be injured.

That and “I don’t care” of course.

When I am driving at night I am constantly looking for what works to make people stand out on their bikes, and adapting my own clothing and lighting to match.

#6

At the other end of the spectrum - I also find cars, and increasingly cyclists, with overly-bright led/xenon lights also to be a bit of danger… sure I can see you, but due to the inflicted retina burn, I’ll be damned if I can see anything else…

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#7

Totally agree with you there. A lot of it being down to badly angled and positioned lights on both. Sick of being dazzled by cars with dodgy headlights. As well as cyclists with lights pointing up.
Bright lights on bikes I am fine with, pointing in the right direction.

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#8

#9

Sometimes it’s bad luck. You pop in to work to print off something at 11AM and the next thing you know your held up until 8PM and you’ve only got a black coat and a couple of small lights. I like to think it’s purely circumstance most of the time.

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#10

For some maybe, for others it’s a way of life. I always carry my back up lights in my bag, always.
If I were to travel and be uncertain, I would carry something high vis. As it is I only cycle for leisure, so am always prepared.

#11

Who gets held up at work for 9 hours??? Nope. As @anon64893700 said, it’s a way of life for some people. Dark clothing, no lights, no reflective material, no helmet, no bloody sense.

Any normal person caught out like you describe would ride very carefully. These idiots don’t. They still think they’re invincible. Truth is, they’re just invisible. Until they wind up sprawled over someone’s windscreen.

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#12

And you get blamed and bad mouthed by the cyclist. I had one a few years ago have a real go at me when turning. Black bike, black clothing and no lights. I left him by saying 'you may be in the right in that I turned in front of you but I couldn’t see you. You may be right but if I hadn’t seen you at the last minute you would be dead. Right and dead earn no point’s. I was told to F off.

I bought a decent pair of led lights for my girls bikes from Lidl. £2.99. No lights, no excuse.

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#13

Yes that right everyone riding without lights is a invisible moron who rides like they are Superman - all the time - all of them absolute cretins. Sigh…

As a long time bike rider this sort of conversation comes round every single year and while I agree with some of what has been said, I think some of it a little over the top… While I have three front lights and two back lights (one fell off recently and has been ground into the South Circ) there are times when, and this may come as a surprise to some, the batteries run out. Just last week on my journey home the back light failed - I don’t look at it every minute so must have ridden a couple of miles without it. I do have a backup but as I didn’t see it had gone (nor did I when one fell off) I was riding like an idiot. Silly me.
I also have very bright lights on the front of my bike which are obviously going to blind everyone and sometimes I might put them on flash which I have been told is also the work of the devil.
To be honest it seems to make little difference - cars still turn in front of me, people still step out into the road without looking, vehicles still pull out of side roads so i crash into them ( and then claim “I didn’t see you”) so I break my ribs and have to spend weeks in pain…
While I agree we should all do what we can to be visible I think there is way to much concentration of angst about cyclists. After all cyclists don’t kill over 2000 people a year and we don’t tend to injure 100,000s either - motorised vehciles do that…
I think if we all take care and slow down a bit, do what we can to make ourselves and others around us as safe as we can and we all follow the rules of the road (and yes that means 20mph :wink: round here) then we will all be fine.

Of course you do, cyclists are an homogeneous mass who all act the same at all times! We are a hive mind - like ants or something.
Silliness aside - I find this reaction perfectly normal because everyone does it. Every diver whose behaviour I have ever questioned has told me to feck off. Actually there was one once who I chased up Sydenham Hill, a black cab driver no less, who was really pleasant and apologised before I could open my mouth, which was quite some time considering it was Sydenham Hill. I have been knocked off my bike before, totally not my fault, and then been shouted out by the driver which made me laugh even at the time.
Mostly we all shout and rage,then think better of it and go home and feel slightly embarrassed…

#14

Not sure that has been said by anyone at any point. Over reacting there a little mate.

Indeed they do, as do bulbs fail, punctures occur etc. No doubt about that at all. But there is a difference between non working lights and NO lights at all.
Once again, it is not those who’s lights simply failed during the ride I am talking about, I would have thought that was clear.

There will always be those using the roads, be it on foot, in small or large vehicles who “just didn’t see you” after all, that’s how accidents happen. Lapse of concentration etc. But there is no harm in doing the best you can to prevent these accident occurring.

No one is blaming cyclists, after all the thread is aimed at cyclists and motorists who fail to light up at the same time. Motorists too can suffer a light failure during a journey.

Just to point out that the “we” you refer to includes me, yet it would appear that we have different views. Of course I know you are joking :slight_smile:
However, people react with shock when something dangerous occurs. Anyone who claims they can be squeezed between vehicles, then just brush it off and wish the drivers tally ho, is either a saint or heavily medicated.

As you say, its good to get it out of the system verbally. Been there too.

All in all, to clarify, this is my simple stance. I ride for leisure, so always wear condition appropriate clothing. If I am uncertain when I will be back I will carry hi-vis. Most clothing has reflective piping for visibility. 2 sets of lights, obey the rules of the roads, and never choose to be on the inside of larger vehicles.
I am far from perfect, but take comfort in the fact that I am trying at least.

Light jumpers, invisible cyclists, pavement riders, and plain dangerous riders. The minorities of the cycling world who gives the rest a bad name.

#15

I do believe I said “it’s a way of life for some people”. Some. Not all. Some.

I witnessed an accident a while ago in which a cyclist was hit by a car. Cuts, nasty scrapes, bruises, bit of shock, but nothing broken, thank goodness. The car driver should have taken more care (I won’t go into the details). He was looking the wrong way (at least as far as the cyclist was concerned), As I did what I could to help, my sympathies were entirely with the cyclist.

When I got home and thought it through, however, the fact hat the cyclist had no lights and was riding fast as he approached a junction with messed-up traffic was a very considerable contributor to his accident. He could have been more conscious of the fact that if there was a car coming out of the junction, he probably wouldn’t be seen because he had no lights. Instead, he just charged on, hitting a car whose driver had very little chance of seeing him.

It’s simple, really: if you have dark clothing and no lights on your bike for any reason, don’t drive as though you are covered in florescent yellow clothing and strobe lights.

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#16

Yes I know I am over-reacting - it was sort of the point to reflect my perception of the over reaction generally in the thread - just having a bit of pre brekkie fun.
So this morning in bright sunlight with an empty road a driver (towing a gert big trailer) looks straight at me and turns right in front of me with no indication (into sink hole road as it shall now be known) - only to have to do a u-turn as the road, as we all know is blocked. Not esp dangerous as my brakes actually work but I had to stop dead which is irritating.
So I do agree - with idiotic drivers like that on the road I should have a 500 watt halogen grow light strapped to the front of my bike with a dub sound system emitting some sort of lorry impersonation. They might notice me then.

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#17

There is simply no helping some people. And those are the ones on both sides of the fence that simply should not be on the roads.
Glad to hear your encounter yesterday didn’t result in an accident.

#18

It’s a bit of both isn’t it.
I think cyclists and pedestrians don’t fully realise how difficult it is for drivers to see them at night if they don’t have lights or reflective clothing. Especially if it’s raining, with all the street lights and other car lights glaring, someone in dark clothing can be very difficult to spot. I bought a pack of reflective stickers for a couple of quid, which I have stuck on my daughter’s school bag now that it’s dark when she walks home from school. They are quite effective and not particularly noticeable in the daylight.

Most secondary schools have a uniform policy which requires pupils to wear a black or navy coat - which might look smart, but is not very safe for walking or cycling home.

As for drivers … is it me getting grumpier or are they getting worse? I’ve already posted on here before about idiots driving too fast , or on the wrong side of the road so I had to run out of the way.
The new 20mph limit means you have irritated drivers constantly trying to overtake you or driving right up your rear. (And generally you catch up with them at the next set of traffic lights anyway :smile:)
And don’t get me started about how people drive and park on the school run!!
I have developed a pretty thick skin from driving in London, in that I will drive safely and I don’t care if others beep or swear. But it’s no surprise there are accidents when a lot of drivers seem to prioritise their own journey over other’s safety.

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#19

@Foresthillnick This is not directed at you or “most” cyclists. It is aimed at the idiots who dont use lights and dont make themselves visible. There is no need to get huffy and defensive, some cyclists can be idiots. Divers can be idiots, pedestrians can be idiots etc, etc.

My issue is, cyclists are one of the most vulnerable members on the roads and it worries me when a number dont seem to care. I used to cycle and always made sure I was visable (I lived in Putney and cycled alone the A3 to my office in Kingston) and had lights. If I can be sure I am seen then why cant others. As I said, Lidl do lights for under 5 pounds.

Yes other road users dont see bikes, but that’s a great deflection. I am talking about cyclists and not other road using idiots.

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#20

In motorcycling terms we have SMIDSY (sorry mate I didnt see you) and the curse “I looked but didnt see you”.

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#21

:thumbsup:

Good God! You’re absolutely right @Daffodil! I often see groups of little primary school kids going back to class after an outing somewhere, wearing florescent yellow vests like they’re a pack of tiny site engineers.

See and be seen!

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#22

I am really not huffy or defensive - probably more aggressive than defensive (if you ask my wife) but generally just trying to put an opposing point of view or at least a different point of view and just enjoying myself posting after solving a particularly interesting IT issue at 7:30 this morning. As I did say, I agree for the most part (I have backup backup lights) but find the endless, not on here per se, demonization of cyclists slightly galling.

Now all I need is a car battery and an street light and Ill be good for the ride home!

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