I find the system whereby contributors can anonymously flag posts really creepy - Orwellian,might say, the sort of thing one might expect to find on a forum run by the Chinese Communist Party in Hong Kong. It seems to me it would be better that if you think a post breaches forum guidelines you should either counter-post on the lines of ‘I think this breaches forum guidelines because… Mods, please adjudicate. Love and peace, Robin’ or you should send a private message to the moderators on the same lines. Meanwhile, the offending post should stand. Mods could also of course remove a post off their own bat if they wished to do so, on the understanding that the author of the post could ask for an explanation.
I also find the ban on political discussion on the forum very irritating. Everything is potentially political, as Leo said, and I would like to think that FH is the sort of place where residents could be trusted to discuss politics in a polite and rational way. And ad hominem arguments are sometimes justified, so long as the homo concerned has the right of reply.
I think it depends how you look at it. The theory is that it gives more power to those actually using the site so that it becomes everyone’s joint responsibility to ensure the forum is tidy. The flags aren’t anonymous - the mods (at least) can see who has flagged them and choose to agree/override them. They are particularly helpful on the occasions where a spammer has posted non-relevant links to dodgy merchandise etc and the community ensure they’re gone before the majority even spot them. And as @ForestHull mentioned, if there’s only a single flag, they’re still visible despite being collapsed if a member chooses to look.
I would have agreed with you until I started as a moderator here. Just as some people become ridiculously competitive when behind a buzzer, some get overly invested in what should be relatively low-impact discussions. In ‘general politics’, nothing you write on a local forum is ever going to change the world after all - and if you care so strongly, there are better places to use that energy that might actually have an impact. @LeoGibbons may have some suggestions.
I remember getting on a train at Victoria one evening and opening the forum to find a flagged post. It took me the journey to Peckham Rye and time on the bus home to read the thread, try to work out the gist of what was being complained about and then another 30 minutes at home writing on the thread and to the three members involved to ask them to act like adults rather than toddlers. I strongly encouraged losing #generalpolitics and I can’t see a situation where I’d vote to have it back.
I believe strongly in the good things this forum offers - news on events, shops, photos of the area, people’s other interests, wanted/offered, recommendations of tradespeople or restaurants - which is why I’ve continued to stay as a moderator despite the various dramas. And I generally think to effect change in something you think is valuable but flawed, it’s better to stay engaged.
I fully agree with what @LeoGibbons has said (other than the idea that TfL can’t find money for a crossing on the South Circular when many many others have been successfully upgraded and large amounts is given to councils for emergency LTNs).
Politics has been particularly divisive over the last two years in the UK and US and this forum has reflected this. The hatred that built up in the politics section clearly flowed out to poison the whole tone of discussion on this forum. Although things have improved in the last few months, we continue to get some reoccurring problems with certain individuals insisting on arguing every point, refusing to listen to other perspectives or admit when they might be wrong. This in turn often leads to rude post from other people who are not prepared to get caught in pointless point-scoring with dominant voices (not that I wish to justify rude posts by myself or others).
I continue to find it difficult to engage with this forum because if I engage too much I will upset people whose behaviour and discussion techniques I find dishonest, intolerant, inappropriate and hypocritical.
There are so many people who have a problem with the method of discussion on this forum, and it is completely false to say that this is just a group of intolerant lefties. And it is hardly the first time this discussion has taken place. But things were getting a bit better.
I’m sorry such people would be upset. Personally, I would love to see you engage more in debate here as I always enjoy listening to your well reasoned arguments.
I wrote a longer response, initially, but it’s late and one can only write so many drafts without second guessing oneself. Ultimately I just wanted to agree with this point.
Going back to the original title. I’m not from round ‘ere’, I’m typing this in downtown Mitcham. The political stuff posted here I see on Twitter relating to where I live.
I see this forum as one that relates to those who live in the area, those who used to live in the area, those that live nearby and those, like me, who are privileged to work in the area. And boy, I’m privileged. I love working in Honor Oak.
I’ve noticed that Leo and a few prominent accounts on Twitter have been using their large followings on social media to drive people here to support Leo’s argument, and to encourage the moderators to “reflect on this important feedback” and “wake up, smell the coffee and do what is right” - by which, he means to ban me and the tiny handful of other accounts which he singled out in his post.
We’re the ones who rationally challenged Leo’s strongly expressed, but not necessarily popular, policy opinions on subjects such as LTNs and housing.
These social media broadcasts could explain why there are lots of votes coming in from low-trust accounts who rarely use the forum.
The spectacle of a local councillor publicly attempting to drive mobs, and to de-platform his opposition is quite something.
“low-trust accounts who rarely use the forum”
I don’t use the forum much… but can’t you see these comments are part of the problem? They make people feel like they’re a lower class of forum user if they don’t engage regularly or they’re not verified. If we’re ‘low-trust’ do our opinions not count? Please don’t also assume we’re all part of a ‘mob’ either (more divisive language)… I happen to be a long-time lurker, as I’m sure many others are, which is why I came across LeoGibbons post and felt able to post again for the first time in a long time.
But to you I’m low-trust and part of a mob? Nice…
With respect @Smiris, Chris didnt say you were low-trust, you did.
We usually have around 10,000 page views per day, yesterday it was around 16,000. Some may be on here for good reasons, some may not. But what I do hope is all that came, new and old, may engage on the forum with open minds and civility.
All I’ll say is, this is the kind of exchanges that I think people are referring to. maybe it’s the tone I’m reading it in but it doesn’t come across well
I really appreciate that, but consider that the tone you read may differ for you and someone else. If we tried to focus on the content, and not our personal tonal thoughts, maybe we could get past that and have open, meaningful discussions.
It is clear that lots of people have issues with this forum and have been put off from engaging with it, due to the tone and hostility of a small number of accounts.
To quote one person who spoke to me on Twitter, ‘I’m quite a long way from going back to the forum as I just found it too toxic and closed out.’ This view is not uncommon among ex-users or infrequent posters - ‘low-trust’ accounts as they’ve been called.
Someone has said, fairly reasonable and politely, that they are unhappy with a poster’s tone, pointing this out as part of the all-too-common problem. The response from a moderator? To tell the person to keep their ‘personal tonal thoughts’ to themselves. For goodness sake, we’ve just been labelled a mob!
I am trying to give people the confidence to speak out and I am urging people to use this thread to give honest feedback on the site in the hope that @ForestHull does what is right for the betterment of forum.
Leo, are you writing as a councillor or an individual in this instance?
I am not on Twitter, but have seen some of the writing on it today. Is this the norm these days? I would expect better of adults than undertaking gossip about a small forum in a small area of London.
As a councillor in the midst of a pandemic have are there not beetr things you could be doing with your time?
Now, no doubt, people will be all over like me like a rash, so be it. But what I ask the more sensible is, have a cup of your favourite beverage and think "does John have a point!?
Whatever I/we do or say on here, someone will take offence, so we really stand no chance.
And finally:
A few accusations have been put my way over the last two days, the last two i asked for clarification from the posters, I have yet to recieve any.
Maybe you can explain to me just how you came to the conclusions you have over what I said and I will quote it for you:
It was a real attempt to ask for people to be minded of others, but apparently you feel otherwise. I would really like to know why. I realise as someone who was not born in the UK that my use of language and grammar may not be on par with your but I had hope that the sincere intentions were clear. So please, explain how I could have made it nicer or clearer so that people would not take offence.
If we want to figure out whether “lots of people have issues with the forum”, it seems rather unscientific for people to put a loaded question out to thousands of people on Twitter (who may or may not even use the forum), and to ask them if they like the forum. And then to quote a single, annecdotal response as if this proves a point. That’s just bad science, sorry.
Hello. I’ve closed the topic but will re-open it today. This is a completely unilateral decision by me. I am homeschooling 2 kids, suspect @foresthull is the same and am having both my kids need my attention even as I type this. I asked further up for all to be nice. I, or other mods will come back on later once we’ve had a quick discussion re this thread. Tha is and apologies to all, the thread will be reopened later.
The moderators met tonight and have discussed the issues raised.
We have created a new thread with our response here. Could all additional feedback please be added to that thread as this thread is a mixture of 2 topics, and has some posts that need further review / appear to break forum guidelines. We will review those in due course .
Please adhere to the criteria as set out in the linked post.