The problem is twofold I think:
Is Southern really linterested in “metro” services that start/finish in London or are they focused on the longer routes?
I can see a case that the “Metro” routes belong in TfL, but TFL is short of money and so far there is no long term funding arrangement with the govt, so is TfL in the position to take over these routes?
Not an easy one to resolve sadly.
The issue is that we’ve lost all of our Southern services, whereas other stations only had their services reduced. Why would that be? Many stations serviced by southern also have the overground and/or the underground.
Is it the more effective lobbying that goes on in Southwark and Wandsworth who are also serviced by southern. If service reductions are needed, seems other stations will spared at our expense.
If central government operate a first come first served or whoever shouts the loudest policy to trains, then obviously we’ll be at the bottom of the pile, as there’s a lot more support in other boroughs served by southern.
Perhaps it’s time for some work to be done to ensure service levels on the OG are improved as I feel that who ever maintains the line does it as cheaply as possibly, taking as long as they like because they know they can get away with it. I swear it’s the least reliable line in London.
I got the Overground this morning for the first time since the WFH directive ended. It was pretty busy. not as busy as pre pandemic but the busiest I have seen it since.
Forest Hill has always been very pi** poor for public transport. Even before this pandemic the morning Overground was stressful until you get to Canada Water thanks god I don’t travel than way now. But sometimes the Overground fails and started using my car as it was easier to get to Hackney. But it must be hell now with no southern service surely this a breach of their contract and should be stripped of it immediately. and for the local councillors and MP to say they are useless is a complete understatement kick them all out at the next elections. No I am not a Conservative voter.
For those changing at Canada Water there is the ‘secret escalator’ at the front of the northbound trains that goes up to the ticket hall and then you can go down to the Jubilee line. It is a little slower but it has always been a good way to avoid crowding on the main escalator to the Jubilee line.
Those of us who use it don’t like to talk about it much in case it gets too much more use!
I saw an article perhaps in News Shopper a few days ago about a group starting legal action to renationalize Southern which may or may not be a good thing but unfortunately I can’t find it now. Does anyone know about this?
This route was used throughout the pandemic as they closed off the main escalator, so it’s probably not that much of a secret to commuters anymore 
In 2009 we had 6tph running around every 10 mins to London Bridge.
In 2022 under the emergency timetable we have 8tph operating every 7.5 minutes to Highbury & Islington which connect to the Jubilee line, the DLR, District, Hammersmith & City and Victoria lines, plus Great Northern services from Highbury & Islington.
As for Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill keeping their NR services, they have the majority of services provided by Southern, Thameslink and Southeastern where the majority of those stations have no TfL service at all.
We’ve been spoilt with 12tph pre-Covid serving New Cross Gate to Sydenham and yet people are still moaning that we still have a better service than say East Dulwich or Lower Sydenham. Southern while completely useless are right to prioritise stations wholly served by their stations that our high frequency service which is now on a par with the Uxbridge branch of the Metropolitan line.
Yep, I’ve often been diverted to the ticket hall escalator with no other option than to use it, so it’s not that big a secret. But it’s definitely a good shout when the down escalator is rammed.
Whilst it is indeed good to have the Overground, it is not, repeat not sufficient on its own. The Southern services provides key routes to London Bridge, East Croydon, transfer to St Pancreas etc
Which is why the Southern routes on our lines needs to be reinstated PDQ.
Indeed. The Overground is already overcrowded as it is the only link to the tube for a lot of SE London. If you add four more train loads of people the Overground and indeed the Canada Water interchange will become impossibly over crowded.
I don’t think wanting four trains to central London is “spoilt”.
I just noticed that southern are actually using our tracks, just not stopping, like Thames link have always done.
Maybe they should have been made to stop at Lewisham stations? And maybe this is how Southwark and Wandsworth got their services back?
Southern try to be useless everywhere, but get away with it less in Wandsworth.
I don’t think it’s melodramatic. When we returned to the office last year I cycled 16 miles a day to avoid having to take the overground now the Victoria service has gone. I’m lucky we’re only back two days a week because we gave up office space in lockdown as I don’t think I could cycle 5 days! I would basically do any route I could to avoid Canada Water and luckily because i’m south side of the tracks, the catford stations and lower sydenham are within range. I really really feel for those of you who can’t avoid Canada Water - it’s vile. Which is why I never used that route before lockdown even though it’s the quickest door to door public transport route to my office.
I cannot believe how sketchy southern is on this, pretending they are running a service but in fact not actually running a remotely appropriate service. I knew the route to victoria was out of the window (and therefore the two trains a day to LB when it’s going the other way) but I didn’t realise the rest of the London Bridge services weren’t running either. When I think that when I moved to FH you could get a direct train to Charing Cross, London Bridge and Victoria and had the overground. Now it seems we can only get to Canada Water!
The East London Line is fine in terms of frequency but the fact is it only just touches Zone 1 at Shoreditch and has much fewer interchanges with other lines than the Met. Almost all changes on the ELL are at Canada Water causing a huge bottleneck. It’s really not comparable to the Met at all.
Maybe it would be less of a bottleneck of ELL frequency increased to take up the unused track time which was allocated to Southern? Giving us something closer to normal tube frequency.
Also the capacity of some of the Overground stations is pretty poor. When the Jubilee line had issues in late 2019 Shadwell (where you can change on to the DLR) often got dangerously overcrowded.
I think things at Canada Water will improve once Crossrail opens as people will be able to get off at Whitechapel and access another East/West connection. But that feels like a long way off at the moment.
It’s not just the interchange at Canada Water that’s a massive problem, it’s also about the Jubilee service which is problematic for overcrowding and the carriages are physically smaller than other tube lines. There’s less headroom, less air. You can tell that the Jubilee was expected to be overcrowded
from inception, as there are fewer seats per carriage than other lines.
The overground for me is a far more useful and important line than the NR to London Bridge.
Yes the Canada Water interchange isn’t the nicest experience, but the jubilee line takes you to so many more places than just London Bridge (where the interchange with the tube is quite a long one).
The problem we’ve got is having both overground and NR means neither is providing a decent service. I find all the regular weekend closures of the overground totally unacceptable.
I’d obviously like to have both services. But if it was a choice of the two I’d go for the overground any day.
The key thing is that you need to have both services, certainly during the week. When I used to work in Canary Wharf I admit that I would normally do the Overground cram and Canada Water. Not pleasent, but I agree the BR/underground interchange at London Bridge was not great either.
But if you work close to London Bridge, wanted to get to Waterloo/Charing Cross then the rail is better (plus of course the rail line provides connections at East Croyden and London Bridge for airports).
I do understand that with a major upgrade at London Victoria, it is likely that there is some knock-on disruption at weekends on our line. There were big problems I think on the lines from Lewisham when London Bridge station was upgraded.
What I do not think acceptable though is to have no Southern rail services in the week. Both the Overground and Southern is needed in the week, especially as more people work in the office. Plus there is the moral point as though it rather looks like Southern has thrown this line under the bus (or more accurately non-stopping train)
I only really use Southern when the OG is down, but it is down a lot, and if we do not have Southern as a back up then our journey takes 30 mins longer, as we are not near Catford.
Stations in SW London through to Victoria station service are not serviced by the overground, and so I think there is a valid argument that they should keep the service to Victoria running.
If the worst comes to the worst and Southern get away with cancelling our local/metro service then they should be made to make some of their long distance services stop at our stations.
We really some support with getting the OG to actually run the scheduled service all the way to H&I, 8tph, every day, not finishing early.
But the jubilee line goes to both London Bridge and Waterloo. So the rail might be better but they both do the same job.
I’d actually be in favour of southern completely removing the service, if it meant that all this nonsense with the overground being down for an entire weekend once a month was stopped (hypothetically speaking).