Indeed, and the same criticism can be levelled at the council’s own use of Commonplace for consultation.
Personally I think a paper based petition can also be faked or manipulated because it’s unlikely anyone is going to check names and addresses supplied.
The benefit of online is that it reaches a lot of people, but at the same time it does exclude other groups (those without easy access to computers).
So perhaps paper + online?
Yes - definitely do-able. The council has just sent me a form to confirm the electoral register is up to date at my house with an option to complete it online using a unique two part security code. That would seem like a perfectly adequate way of achieving a paper/online consultation. Send it by post to local residents and give them the option to fill it out online. I think the chance of people abusing something like this are fairly low.
I think there is comparatively little faking or manipulation of paper based petitions when they represent a local group whether civic society or local residents. It is a thankless task knocking on doors and asking people to sign in all weathers so tends to be only the very dedicated rather the armchair keyboarder sitting in the warmth.
I would agree though something that combines online and paper would be the way forward.
It would appear that online maps still don’t correctly understand these road closures, as shown by the following walking directions:
It looks like Google maps think that Silverdale is closed to cars, bikes and pedestrians!
I guess that’s one way to encourage more walking at least 
It would appear it also takes a lot more effort to come out and protest. 30 or so people out on a demo opposing Lewisham LTNs this weekend. Did anyone here go?
If just a single person cares enough to take to the streets to protest, the likelihood is that it’s a serious issue (and thus affects a lot more than one person). Most of us have jobs, and don’t have the luxury of time off to attend demonstrations.
Describing the opposition to LTNs as “anti healthy streets” is a massive conceit, as well. Totally disingenuous. The mother of Ella Roberta Kissi-Debrah is opposed to LTNs. Is she “anti healthy streets” now?
It’s simply a counterpoint to 9,000 signatures on a petition. 0.3% of those people turned out to protest. The point was that it’s easy to collect signatures from out of towners when you do it online as opposed to canvassing local people on their doorsteps to get real local feedback.
Ealing had a couple of thousand people show up on the streets in comparison.
This demo above was at a weekend when most people aren’t working.
We’re not supposed to be out on the street protesting. We’re supposed to avoid crowds. So maybe the size of the protest goes to show that the organizers are being sensible and sensitive in keeping the scale of the demo responsible and healthy. As opposed to those who direct traffic into smaller and smaller areas and thereby create unhealthy streets.
Interestingly, just two Twitter posts back, that same Martin McKee was complaining about someone breaking the rule of six by attending. So in his book you’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t.
It was also pouring with rain most of the weekend 
You may need to redo your sums as the petition is now in excess of 10,100 signatures. They also claim more than 100 people joined the protest at the weekend. Of course each side is going to try and under-represent the other, but some things are hard to ignore.
Moving on, interesting new data on the Lee Green LTN is provided by the Lewisham Lib Dems who have conducted their own survey of 1,000 people who live in and around that area. Their report lacks any snazzy info graphics but has interesting stat’s none-the-less; it can be read here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rUBrsMz3eaVWKYS3Ht1NmBm6Dv6lPfDs/view
This is certainly not from ‘out of towners’:
Here are selected questions and responses from the survey report (many questions have long textual answers omitted for here for brevity):
It is interesting to note that in response to Q2a, many people wish the restrictions only be on weekdays. However, the TfL data that is often cited in supporting the LTNs shows that many of the <2km journeys which would better if walked or cycled happen at weekends.
The report says that many of the ‘other’ responses are simply asking for the complete reversal of the changes.
A couple of questions are somewhat leading, but still interesting:
It certainly looks like Lee Green LTN is the current battleground, and it will be interesting to see how it plays out there, and if results affect other road closures in the borough.
It was on BBC Breakfast national news this morning too. The Mayor was saying he’s listening to people and considering how to move forward.
In the mean time, this is an interesting article about how the underlying problems can’t be solved without fundamentally rethinking how our cities are designed.
Was that Damian Egan on BBC Breakfast? Do you have a link?
I think the pros & cons of electric vehicles is a different discussion.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1017860088638274 - sorry all I can find is a Facebook link - should work… my favourite is the delivery driver worried about pollution yet has a pack of (red) Marlboro in his cab.
Despite the title the article is really about 15-20min cities and redesign of urban architecture. The electric thing is secondary. The delivery problem of going door to door could easily be solved with central drop off locations. You can still organise delivery for people with mobility issues.
And I agree with the earlier comments about using tech to solve this - rush hour closures with cameras and/or average speed checks would be excellent as people could then cycle commute on quieter roads.
Monbiot’s statement regarding tire wear pollution is simply wrong:
In actual fact, this kind of particulate pollution presents a low risk to human health.
I wouldn’t want a far-left, anti-capitalist eco-propagandist like Monbiot redesigning our cities
I wouldn’t want a far-right, capitalist climate denier redesigning our cities either. And I’m not pointing any fingers, just echoing/reversing your statement.
I think the primary point about the 15 minute cities and road closures is that it encourages communities to build up again and it’s good for local business. I would love to be able to get most things I need on Dartmouth Road but we’ve engineered things to be cheaper to buy in Retail Parks that it’s easy to drive to and park at. I can’t even buy a screwdriver without having to go to Bell Green
Reversing, why? Did anyone propose such a thing on this topic?
It’s interesting that that study was sponsored by the tyre industry. I confess though that I haven’t read it all, as to do so would mean following many links to other studies and I haven’t had time to do so. I wonder if they looked into the impact of gradient and speed bumps? The studies Lewisham relied on in the introduction of the blanket 20mph zoning were carried out on horizontal surfaces.
From Damian Egan’s ‘Covid-19 Update’ email yesterday:
It will be interesting to see what changes are made, as well as what evidence is used to inform those decisions.
Lewisham council begins removing LTNs:
Yet they certainly did work out as many of us expected them to.
It’s a shame the council listened to ideologues as opposed to the general public. Could have saved a lot of money and avoided creating congestion.
The general public is not represented solely by motorists who are too lazy and selfish to change their behaviour. The general public includes me who would like to cycle safely from A to B. The general public includes parents who want their kids to be safe walking down the street and not breathe pollution.
Yes indeed everyone expected there to be a whole load of congestion to the point that over time it would push people to change their behaviour. In other towns it has taken 2-3 years.
Backing down now is daft. So yes they’ll need to retreat and rethink and hopefully have a better executed plan next time.
