Oh good, I’m sure everyone will be fine about being consulted properly this time around before they make any further changes!
Also I noted that Ealing are extending their trial for another 6 months - at least I’ve seen it on BBC London news in the mornings but can’t seem to find any notices online.
Lewisham will now perform a full statutory consultation about the measures.
It’s a great shame they didn’t perform this beforehand - they could have saved a lot of time, money and frustration.
Relevant to this topic is the following change.org petition which has reached in excess of 9,000 signatures (note this is different to the Make Mayow Road safer one mentioned earlier which stands at about 800 signatures):
For balance I did try and find a petition to keep / extend the road closures in Lewisham, but didn’t find anything quite comparable. Perhaps someone here can find something comparable?
Interesting. Democratically elected council takes action on road safety measures. Some people petition it to change on the basis there was no proper consultation. It is impractical to have a consultation every time anything needs to get done: we could but it would be prohibitively expensive, time consuming and people would lose interest rapidly. That’s why you have local elections: to elect people to make decisions for you so you don’t have to bother. We elect these people to represent us. Someone is going to disagree every time government at any level does anything, constant petitioning…why? 9000 out of 300,000 residents is not a huge number.
On the flip side, why would you petition to keep something that’s already there? I expect a proper review at the end of the scheme then let’s decide if it’s effective and if we want to keep it.
A 9000-strong petition is huge and represents a groundswell of opinion that the council are picking up on. They’ve gone very quiet on social media about LTNs now and have acknowledged the need to ask the public about this divisive policy.
I’m only reporting what I would say is a not-insignificant petition which hasn’t been mentioned here before. 9,000 isn’t a huge number, but comparing it to the population of residents isn’t particularly useful either (and the petition also doesn’t require signatories to be a resident). For comparison, the “Save Duncombe Hill Green” petition reached over 5,000 signatures before it was presented to the Council and I wouldn’t belittle that.
But personally I don’t think democracy is limited to a couple of days voting every 4 years and petitions are a time honoured way for people to show what they care about and influence the decision making of those that have been previously elected. This is important, especially given that Covid response wasn’t on any manifesto or agenda at the time any elections were last held.
I know it sounds a bit regressive but I would have more faith in a paper petition of a few hundred people than an anonymous online petition even it has thousands of signatures.
There is no qualitative control that I can see with this petition. Many of the people signing will be people who contribute nothing to our borough except their pollution.
I am in favour of petitions but they have to be local and there has to be some quality control to ensure that they reflect local opinion. It takes a lot more effort to walk the streets collecting signatures, writing to councillors and writing your name on a petition than clicking Sign this petition with complete anonymity.
Indeed, and the same criticism can be levelled at the council’s own use of Commonplace for consultation.
Personally I think a paper based petition can also be faked or manipulated because it’s unlikely anyone is going to check names and addresses supplied.
The benefit of online is that it reaches a lot of people, but at the same time it does exclude other groups (those without easy access to computers).
So perhaps paper + online?
Yes - definitely do-able. The council has just sent me a form to confirm the electoral register is up to date at my house with an option to complete it online using a unique two part security code. That would seem like a perfectly adequate way of achieving a paper/online consultation. Send it by post to local residents and give them the option to fill it out online. I think the chance of people abusing something like this are fairly low.
I think there is comparatively little faking or manipulation of paper based petitions when they represent a local group whether civic society or local residents. It is a thankless task knocking on doors and asking people to sign in all weathers so tends to be only the very dedicated rather the armchair keyboarder sitting in the warmth.
I would agree though something that combines online and paper would be the way forward.
It would appear that online maps still don’t correctly understand these road closures, as shown by the following walking directions:
It looks like Google maps think that Silverdale is closed to cars, bikes and pedestrians!
I guess that’s one way to encourage more walking at least 
It would appear it also takes a lot more effort to come out and protest. 30 or so people out on a demo opposing Lewisham LTNs this weekend. Did anyone here go?
If just a single person cares enough to take to the streets to protest, the likelihood is that it’s a serious issue (and thus affects a lot more than one person). Most of us have jobs, and don’t have the luxury of time off to attend demonstrations.
Describing the opposition to LTNs as “anti healthy streets” is a massive conceit, as well. Totally disingenuous. The mother of Ella Roberta Kissi-Debrah is opposed to LTNs. Is she “anti healthy streets” now?
It’s simply a counterpoint to 9,000 signatures on a petition. 0.3% of those people turned out to protest. The point was that it’s easy to collect signatures from out of towners when you do it online as opposed to canvassing local people on their doorsteps to get real local feedback.
Ealing had a couple of thousand people show up on the streets in comparison.
This demo above was at a weekend when most people aren’t working.
We’re not supposed to be out on the street protesting. We’re supposed to avoid crowds. So maybe the size of the protest goes to show that the organizers are being sensible and sensitive in keeping the scale of the demo responsible and healthy. As opposed to those who direct traffic into smaller and smaller areas and thereby create unhealthy streets.
Interestingly, just two Twitter posts back, that same Martin McKee was complaining about someone breaking the rule of six by attending. So in his book you’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t.
It was also pouring with rain most of the weekend 
You may need to redo your sums as the petition is now in excess of 10,100 signatures. They also claim more than 100 people joined the protest at the weekend. Of course each side is going to try and under-represent the other, but some things are hard to ignore.
Moving on, interesting new data on the Lee Green LTN is provided by the Lewisham Lib Dems who have conducted their own survey of 1,000 people who live in and around that area. Their report lacks any snazzy info graphics but has interesting stat’s none-the-less; it can be read here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rUBrsMz3eaVWKYS3Ht1NmBm6Dv6lPfDs/view
This is certainly not from ‘out of towners’:
Here are selected questions and responses from the survey report (many questions have long textual answers omitted for here for brevity):
It is interesting to note that in response to Q2a, many people wish the restrictions only be on weekdays. However, the TfL data that is often cited in supporting the LTNs shows that many of the <2km journeys which would better if walked or cycled happen at weekends.
The report says that many of the ‘other’ responses are simply asking for the complete reversal of the changes.
A couple of questions are somewhat leading, but still interesting:
It certainly looks like Lee Green LTN is the current battleground, and it will be interesting to see how it plays out there, and if results affect other road closures in the borough.
It was on BBC Breakfast national news this morning too. The Mayor was saying he’s listening to people and considering how to move forward.
In the mean time, this is an interesting article about how the underlying problems can’t be solved without fundamentally rethinking how our cities are designed.
Was that Damian Egan on BBC Breakfast? Do you have a link?
I think the pros & cons of electric vehicles is a different discussion.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1017860088638274 - sorry all I can find is a Facebook link - should work… my favourite is the delivery driver worried about pollution yet has a pack of (red) Marlboro in his cab.
Despite the title the article is really about 15-20min cities and redesign of urban architecture. The electric thing is secondary. The delivery problem of going door to door could easily be solved with central drop off locations. You can still organise delivery for people with mobility issues.
And I agree with the earlier comments about using tech to solve this - rush hour closures with cameras and/or average speed checks would be excellent as people could then cycle commute on quieter roads.
