That is what I had assumed too. Begging is an offence, but I have never come across giving money to a beggar as being an offence. I assume what the police meant was to remind people that giving money to beggars could be unintentionally encouraging the beggars to continue to commit an offence themselves, although they could, of course, mean that anyone giving money was colluding in the offence of begging, or somethimg similar. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the police are wrong, it’s just that some of us were not aware that giving to beggars was an offence and are seeking clarification, because the actual message was unclear.
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Would it be possible to have the full list of priorities please? Are there minutes available of the meetings where these issues are discussed/decided?
Hi,
From our Twitter Feed:
New #PerryVale Ward promises (5/9/17)
- Moped enabled ASB & Crime
- Motor vehicle crime prevention
- Begging
Set by our Ward Panel
Our ward panel hold any minutes. We do not take or retain them. I will ask if they are happy for them to be posted at our next panel in January ‘18.
SgtBiddle
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Further to this, you can also email 61016@btp.pnn.police.uk (was just informed via a response to a text to 61016). That way you can include photos.
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I have never seen a beggar in Perry Vale, where do they usually beg?
Thank you for taking this action, @SgtBiddle. I know it’s a sensitive topic, and to understand it fully requires the knowledge that our local police have access to.
From my PoV, some beggars have access to a home and/or support, but still beg, and in doing so, divert generous public donations away from genuine homeless and needy people elsewhere.
It’s absolutely right IMO to deal with these instances on a case by case basis and in the public interest.
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Community Protection Notice vs Public Space Protection Orders - are these similar or is the Poole model more punitive.
Indeed are both or is neither a step too far ?
Noticed a number of police talking to the usual lady who sits in the subway this morning, not sure what was going on but all looked serious. I have such mixed feelings about the issue, with the begging on the overground pretty persistent and a new guy sometimes sitting at the opposite end of the underpass.
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There were 3 beggars in the space of 10 mins on the Overground last night. I don’t understand why the London transport police don’t do random patrols on it. It should be easy to catch them given the sheer number of beggars.
Agreed, there is usually one on any journey I make after 12noon, in either direction - often the same beggars so they must be making enough to make it worth them coming back. They are canny enough to stop begging at the first sight of a high-viz jacket and usually get off to catch the next train. I had an experience recently where one beggar was on the same Overground then Jubilee train, and he wasn’t happy when I called him out for asking me twice in the same journey for money.
If it wasn’t lucrative, people wouldn’t beg illegally on public transport.
In my opinion, the blame for illegal begging on the Overground lies squarely with those who sponsor this activity by donating.
A driver made an announcement the other night along the lines: “a career beggar has just entered the train. He is not genuinely homeless. Please do not give him your hard-earned money”
Train drivers shouldn’t have to do this, but it seemed effective in this case as the beggar stepped off shortly afterwards knowing he wouldn’t be able to dupe people out of their money on that train.
Signage and announcements should be more common, and we should all think twice before sponsoring illegal begging.
Not all beggars are addicts. Not all beggars are being exploited through modern slavery. However there is a good chance our generous donations fund organised crime - and therefore donating to strangers who beg illegally is morally questionable, in my opinion. Far better to follow police advice and donate to charities that actually help people off the street.
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The problem is that people do feel guilty. I have never given money directly, however have once given food as had leftover and the guy was asking for food over money. I am sure there are lots of different ploys but you only recognise them if you regularly travel on the Overground. I certainly do not like travelling in the evening as similar to other people’s experiences have had several people begging on the same train. Once you have seen the same people several times you become more immune to the tricks. Frankly announcement by train driver, whilst not their job, does raise awareness with everyone. Due to this thread I am more aware of the regulars and also now know that many are not homeless. I agree more has to be done to raise awareness for everyone, certainly those travelling on Overground regularly. Where to report and who are the persistent beggars. More information could be displayed at stations and in the meantime certainly announcements by train drivers can assist. When you have someone crying in front of you it is v difficult to make judgement whether genuinely in need or not.
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I don’t usually give to beggars on trains, but this morning, a woman walked down the train asking for money with the most horrendous, weeping burns down her legs. The result, apparently, of her sleeping bag being set on fire. Whether or not that was legit I don’t know, but what I do know is that in her case, there was a very definite need for some sort of attention, and I couldn’t let her go before giving her anything.
It still seems to be regular. But one thing I’ll say is that the BTP text service seems to be pretty effective.
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I dread coming home from my late shifts at work on the overground (usually between 9.30 and 10.30pm) due to the beggars on the train.
I don’t want to sound hard, I’m not a hard woman and give regulary to genuine charity collectors
However one of the beggars is very aggressive and actually quite nasty.
the others seem to have a very similar very polite humble script.
I feel bad ignoring them because they look in need of help but after a long stressful day working on my feet all day in retail in the west-end I just want to sit down and zone out and get home.
Not be made to feel mean by not handing over my hard (very hard) earned cash.
And the aggressive rude man who begs makes me-a lone 60year old feel downright nervous.
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Send a text to 61016 stating what station you passed last and what train you are on (eg 18:15 out of London Bridge) - the beggar may not even know you are doing it.
You can also email 61016@btp.pnn.police.uk
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She’s there every morning again now.
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Possibly connected?
I can’t understand how they’ve only just “stumbled across” her if it is the same lady, since she’s been consistently there at the same times of day for weeks. Maybe it’s someone else less prominent but more aggressive?
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Back this morning at rush hour, saw two people hand over money in the time it took me to walk down the stairs into the underpass.