I see, so it’s the secure bike parking facility on the pavement that’s the real problem here, not the scores of cars that drive onto the pavement to park. That’s kind of the point of this post in the first place - lots of comments in the other thread about bikes on pavements, but the first real issue with the cars parking on pavements thread are the bicycles.
Personally I agree - stick the bike parking on the road, leave enough space to make it single file to discourage rat running.
Sigh. I’ll try to make it clearer.
Bicycles on pavements = bad.
Cars on pavements = bad.
Clutter on pavements = bad.
I am sure there are pavements that are wide enough to have dedicated bicycle and motorbike parking that does not spill out onto walkways and obstruct pedestrians. Just as there are roads that are wide enough to have car and van parking that does not obstruct the two way flow of traffic.
Many shops and hospitality venues have curtilage to the front which they own and may be used for A boards and other business use (in some cases licence dependent). Not all do.
yes I noticed that-showed photo to my other half to point out Somebody is worse at parking than me!
On a serious note it was virtually in the middle of the road parked near a corner-not ok
This is what Premier group think is ok. Right in the middle of a pavement in Perry Village. Driver keen to tell me how hard it is to park here. I was keen to explain the difference between roads and pavements.
Blocking of dropped kerbs makes me absolutely hopping mad. It’s incredibly selfish and thoughtless.
Coincidentally a little while ago I asked @LeoGibbons whether he could find out whether pavement parking was permitted down Woodcoombe. He said he’d find out but not heard back.
My impression is that pavement parking has got a lot worse on Devonshire in the last couple of years, especially from the Tyson Road junction towards Honor Oak. I have never seen a car ticketed for pavement parking anywhere in Lewisham.
Well they certainly were when the council cracked down on pavement parking. Admittedly that was some years ago now.
I got one once.
Somewhat ironically as I intentionally parked on the pavement as all other cars did and there was a sign to indicate that was the approved parking. Little did I realise until too late, the parking on the pavement stopped at the next car to me, and I was meant to park in the road…this was quite a few years ago now.
There are a few roads around where there is tarmac of sorts on the pavement, and all cars park on them (though there is still enough pavement width for everyone to pass incl prams etc), however I am not sure if there are signed to indicate this. If all those cards parked in the road though no cars could pass, not sure what would happen if these areas were clamped down on but it’s the most practical solution for some of those roads and seems to work for everyone.
Woodcombe has wide enough pavements luckily to allow pedestrians and cars, space & parking & always has seemed to be ok for the last 20 odd years. As soon as a car parks on the road or half on & off on Woodcombe it causes more traffic delays in busier periods of the day.
It’s not the road I was thinking of, but that does sound a ‘if it’s not broken, don’t fix it’ road.
Like many things, I think we need to consider the objectives and reason for arguing against parking on the pavement. Many perfectly reasonable ones have been made above, especially in terms of pedestrians being able to walk down them.
Where there is not sufficient space for pedestrians to walk, I assume residents of those roads should be consulted as to what they would like done (if anything), as well as other stakeholders (eg maybe a school / PTA is it’s a regular school route etc).
I think where cars do park on the pavement, it should also be perfectly sensible to install some secure bike racks.
I guess at some point a lot of these will be reviewed when the position of electric vehicle charging points are proposed, though when that will be looked at in earnest who knows.
Perry Rise is an interesting case.
I think examples like the one you have posted are the trickiest.
You (and I don’t mean you Michael) are effectively choosing between a more optimal pavement space, saying no parking there for residents, or perhaps making the road one way and widening the pavement that way. I suspect option 2 would be hugely unpopular with residents and I would agree with them.
These ones will have genuine arguments from opposing sides.
If it were me (and I’m glad it’s not) I’d want to understand what issues people using the pavement were facing on that side, and then look at what solutions -assuming issues were identified - might be possible (eg how much extra pavement space might be needed to resolve any issues, is the pavement on the other side of the road suitable, are other routes possible etc).
Perhaps the people who are going to build the tunnel under Forest Hill could also build some underground car parks…
I am 99% sure pavement parking is not allowed on Woodcombe Crescent but I’ve asked officers about it and asked for an enforcement sweep of the area @Runner_Rich.
As you can see, I have asked some public questions to our Cabinet Member for Transport about pavement parking in an attempt to get in on the agenda. It looks like LBL are currently instigating a ‘review’ of footway parking.
When i worked and parked in Sangley Rd Catford they had alternate parking one side to the other from one day to next as it had a bus route running down there at the time.
Was clearly signposted and worked well in the two yrs i was there.
Catford. Twinned with Manhattan!
Perhaps American street cleaning could answer three of our problems: keeping our streets clean, discouraging long term parking and getting Lewisham some extra revenue.
I think the schemes generally work by designating one day of the week to clean either side of the street when you have to move your car or get a ticket. It would be relatively easy for residents to move their cars at night when there is less demand for parking but harder for people who live further away and just dump their car on the street. It would be cheaper than a CPZ and have the advantage over a School Street LTN that it would displace traffic for just one day rather than 24/7.
Personally though with Covid and working from home, I have started to appreciate the benefits of long term parking outside your window. If one car sits there then you get less pollution but if the space has a short-term occupant, it could change about 8 times a day with all the resultant pollution whether it is a petrol/diesel/electric car.
Back to parking cars on pavements, we should think of the usage by pedestrians, if 10 cars sit on a pavement for one day, it will benefit 10 individuals whereas if the pavement is open to pedestrians in a busy area, it will probably benefit a few hundred a day. Closing off pavements by making it uncomfortable for pedestrians makes an area less vibrant and sociable, reducing casual conversations as people don’t have the space to stop and have a chat.
A few more: opposite Pantry
Stanstead Road
Outside FH Cars, complete with ‘no parking’ cones…
“Post your street parking pictures of SE23!”
Here’s one on Woodcombe where cars are king. 2 wide lanes so the 1000s every day can speed through the rat-run without any hindrance, 2 lane wide pavement so residents and commuters can park their cars without any any risk of getting damaged by the other cars.
That red car’s parking is classic! Not only the double whammy of blocking access to a fire hydrant AND parking on a pavement, but is the telecoms cabinet accessible? With the car for sale and the owner’s phone number displayed in the back window, is this one some kind of set up? Surely no one could be that arrogant and/or dim?
