As a fairly regular traveller to destinations served by South Western pre all the Covid timetable changes I always used the Victoria service to connect at Clapham Junction. However in the last 18 months when the Victoria service hasn’t been running I’ve been going to Waterloo via Canada Water instead. As I don’t travel at peak times I’ve found it almost as easy as the interchange at Canada Water is always quick.
I think Thameslink was responsible for some of that, which is as you say, using capacity for longer routes at the expense of pesky shorter routes.
I’m just glad that there are peak services between Forest Hill and East Croydon again (on Southern)… for now anyway.
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The inner London commuter routes don’t make them money simply. The fares in London are done by the Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) and are divvied up between all of the London TOCs, which has been the case since Oyster PAYG was introduced on National Rail services, where as a passenger paying for a ticket to Brighton will see more of the fare revenue go to GTR rather than to all the others.
Alas why Thameslink are first to remove the Wimbledon Loop services when there are problems, while New Cross Gate lost their fast services due to the increase in Thameslink services using those slots instead.
It’s worth noting that from 2023, Southern (and the other GTR brands) will be part of Great British Railways, which will use the same concession format as London Overground where Great British Railways (a DfT organisation) will set the fares and timetables on National Rail services and branding, while a private company which could still be GTR will operate the trains to and from London Bridge.
London Overground itself will still be operated by TfL under a concession agreement along with Forest Hill and Honor Oak Park stations.
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This is the case. Much more money to be made from long distance season tickets than local commutes. If TfL was in charge of local services then we wouldn’t have this mess.
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I have written to ellie.reeves.mp@parliament.uk expressing my personal concern about this. It has made it much less likely for me to start going back to the office on a regular basis if I can’t rely on regular train services via London Bridge.
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The other annoying thing is that our TFL overground service is also unreliable, with lots of “engineering” works for no apparent reason. This mostly effects off-peak times. e.g. No London Overground services on our line all weekend / Southern Railways operating
Probably someone at TFL figured that our area is well served by national rail, so no problem in closing the line down for an entire weekend.
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Pre-covid when the loop line was up the spout I too used this route to get to Richmond i.e FH- Waterloo- Richmond rather than FH- Clapham J- Richmond. Main issue I had with it is the extra expense, because you’re going into zone 1 it adds 1.50-2 quid on the cost of the journey…
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That’s an excellent idea Michael. I’d consider a letter to mayor@london.gov.uk as Sadiq Khan is also leading a drive for workers to return to their (central) London offices.
I won’t take credit for the idea, that was @Sherwood above - New Southern Railways Weekday Timetable from Monday 6th September - #18 by Sherwood
I’m not sure about emailing Sadiq Khan but it may be worth others email Len Duvall or other London-wide assembly members with an interest in transport.
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Sorry Troy - I’d forgotten there are cheaper fares going via Clapham Junction and therefore for many there is an cost implication of going into Zone 1!
In my defence one of the few positives of getting older is that I’m eligible to have a 60+ Oyster card which gives free travel after 9am within almost all London Travelzones.
If there was still a choice of services I would prefer to use the Victoria service to Clapham Junction when travelling to destinations on the South Western network.
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No need to apologise Chris.
They say you should never wish your life away but one thing I’m looking forward to in a “few” years is getting my 60+ Oyster card, although knowing my luck to pay for all the covid shenigans it’ll become a 67+ Oyster card just as I become eligible!!
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The 60+ Oyster card only came into existence when the age criteria for the Freedom Pass which also includes free bus travel in England was changed from 60 to the state pension age. So as it’s only a stop gap until you’re eligible for the Freedom Pass and the current state pension age is already 66 then unless the 60+ Oyster is scrapped altogether hopefully you’ll be ok! 
Or what about Perry Vale councillor and London Assembly member Sakina Sheikh:
https://councilmeetings.lewisham.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=3015
Huh. Just been caught out now. Getting a train back after work and there is no Forest Hill train until 6.40. The 6.28 has been disappeared. Not happy!
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I ran to catch the 1810 for that reason.
Yeah it’s bonkers that there aren’t more back during peak rush hour. The same as they are still every 15 minutes during the early rush hour. If we had them at 28 and 58 past 5 and 6 it would be better.
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At least you have the option Michael.
I had to opt out of late shifts at work (luckily my manager agreed to it) because of the difficulty of getting trains home after 10.45pm (I would have been leaving work in the west end at 10.30pm so minimum 14 mins to get to canada water).
The overcrowding at Canada water means I try and avoid it because it gives me anxiety attacks.
I worked through every lockdown and during those was the only time I took the chance of getting the overground and facing that interchange.
the only thing I dislike about living here is the dependence on our iffy train service.
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Fran - With the new weekday timetable from London Bridge to Forest Hill there are only 2 trains an hour at 10 and 40 past each hour from 0610 to 2140. Then it goes to 4 trains an hour at 10, 28, 40 and 58 past each hour from 2210 to 2358 and finally 0035.
All these details were in my original post or you can access the full timetables on Southerns’s website:
Southern - Revised-timetable (our route is timetable G)
Does anyone know if this timetable is a temporary change or is it likely this is the new normal for services to London Bridge for the foreseeable (2022 and beyond)? My partner and I are looking to move to the area but for both of us, the easier route into the office would be easier to use Southern to LB (especially reading people’s nightmare tales of Canada Water interchange)
Hi @jd21 - Welcome.
National Rail timetables always used to be published twice a year in May and December although from memory until the pandemic started and rail usage dropped the Southern services from Forest Hill and Honor Oak Park to London Bridge and back hadn’t changed for several years.
However during the pandemic there have been more frequent changes and the last change on September 6th is shown on Southern’s website as “until further notice”. In addition in answer to the question “Will services change in the future?” they advised “We are keeping the current situation under weekly review and will update you if any further changes will be made”
So hopefully the current situation is not going to be permanent and we will eventually see the reinstatement of the weekday London Bridge - Victoria service which would provide the 2 trains per hour that are currently missing from the weekday timetable!
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