But that argument couldn’t be applied for passengers wanting to travel in the opposite direction to Clapham Junction (for connections onto South Western services or Southern’s MIlton Keynes service) or Victoria. Yes there are other routes you can take but where’s the thought for people with mobility issues who often pick a route based on which one is the easiest for them rather than just the quickest.
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Hi All, long time reader of the forum (and wish my first post wasn’t to complain about Southern!)
This news is really bad news and timing for me as I accepted a new job in Surrey a month ago and I was relying on the connection from FH/Sydenham to Clapham, to then get me onto a South Western connecting service.
Sadly Google Maps and TFL are now advising that I my quickest connections would now be to go from Penge East to Victoria, then a Southern train back to Clapham - that sounds crazy to me when we’ve always had the Southern loop from LB to Victoria.
One thing I would say about the evening southern services from Victoria to FH is that it was so unreliable. You would regularly get kicked off the train at Crystal Palace as the train would run fast to LB - this would happen even if the train was on time, this would be tiring after working in London all day.
Really don’t understand how SE London areas in Zones 2 and 3, with no tube alternatives, are served so badly. The overground would not be able to cope if we all used it, to me it’s so busy and horrible with beggars I avoid it like the plague.
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It’s a bit counter intuative but it might be quicker to get the Overground to Surrey Quays and change on to the Clapham Junction bound Overground there.
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Ahh brilliant - that means I have a bit more choice about when to get in to work if I want to continue avoiding the Jubilee line.
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Another alternative I’ve used to get to Clapham Junction is to get the 176 or 185 to Denmark Hill and then the Overground from there. It may work out slightly quicker than changing at Surrey Quays depending on the traffic.
It does rather seem that the overall direction of the railways is to concentrate on longer commuter routes and cut those pesky shorter routes like London Bridge to Victoria or Crofton Park to Blackfriars and beyond.
Essentially we have been given the Overground and the Canada Water interchange. If that does not suit, it seems you can “Like it or lump it”. Not great.
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As a fairly regular traveller to destinations served by South Western pre all the Covid timetable changes I always used the Victoria service to connect at Clapham Junction. However in the last 18 months when the Victoria service hasn’t been running I’ve been going to Waterloo via Canada Water instead. As I don’t travel at peak times I’ve found it almost as easy as the interchange at Canada Water is always quick.
I think Thameslink was responsible for some of that, which is as you say, using capacity for longer routes at the expense of pesky shorter routes.
I’m just glad that there are peak services between Forest Hill and East Croydon again (on Southern)… for now anyway.
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The inner London commuter routes don’t make them money simply. The fares in London are done by the Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) and are divvied up between all of the London TOCs, which has been the case since Oyster PAYG was introduced on National Rail services, where as a passenger paying for a ticket to Brighton will see more of the fare revenue go to GTR rather than to all the others.
Alas why Thameslink are first to remove the Wimbledon Loop services when there are problems, while New Cross Gate lost their fast services due to the increase in Thameslink services using those slots instead.
It’s worth noting that from 2023, Southern (and the other GTR brands) will be part of Great British Railways, which will use the same concession format as London Overground where Great British Railways (a DfT organisation) will set the fares and timetables on National Rail services and branding, while a private company which could still be GTR will operate the trains to and from London Bridge.
London Overground itself will still be operated by TfL under a concession agreement along with Forest Hill and Honor Oak Park stations.
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This is the case. Much more money to be made from long distance season tickets than local commutes. If TfL was in charge of local services then we wouldn’t have this mess.
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I have written to ellie.reeves.mp@parliament.uk expressing my personal concern about this. It has made it much less likely for me to start going back to the office on a regular basis if I can’t rely on regular train services via London Bridge.
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The other annoying thing is that our TFL overground service is also unreliable, with lots of “engineering” works for no apparent reason. This mostly effects off-peak times. e.g. No London Overground services on our line all weekend / Southern Railways operating
Probably someone at TFL figured that our area is well served by national rail, so no problem in closing the line down for an entire weekend.
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Pre-covid when the loop line was up the spout I too used this route to get to Richmond i.e FH- Waterloo- Richmond rather than FH- Clapham J- Richmond. Main issue I had with it is the extra expense, because you’re going into zone 1 it adds 1.50-2 quid on the cost of the journey…
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That’s an excellent idea Michael. I’d consider a letter to mayor@london.gov.uk as Sadiq Khan is also leading a drive for workers to return to their (central) London offices.
I won’t take credit for the idea, that was @Sherwood above - New Southern Railways Weekday Timetable from Monday 6th September - #18 by Sherwood
I’m not sure about emailing Sadiq Khan but it may be worth others email Len Duvall or other London-wide assembly members with an interest in transport.
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Sorry Troy - I’d forgotten there are cheaper fares going via Clapham Junction and therefore for many there is an cost implication of going into Zone 1!
In my defence one of the few positives of getting older is that I’m eligible to have a 60+ Oyster card which gives free travel after 9am within almost all London Travelzones.
If there was still a choice of services I would prefer to use the Victoria service to Clapham Junction when travelling to destinations on the South Western network.
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No need to apologise Chris.
They say you should never wish your life away but one thing I’m looking forward to in a “few” years is getting my 60+ Oyster card, although knowing my luck to pay for all the covid shenigans it’ll become a 67+ Oyster card just as I become eligible!!
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The 60+ Oyster card only came into existence when the age criteria for the Freedom Pass which also includes free bus travel in England was changed from 60 to the state pension age. So as it’s only a stop gap until you’re eligible for the Freedom Pass and the current state pension age is already 66 then unless the 60+ Oyster is scrapped altogether hopefully you’ll be ok! 
Or what about Perry Vale councillor and London Assembly member Sakina Sheikh:
https://councilmeetings.lewisham.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=3015
Huh. Just been caught out now. Getting a train back after work and there is no Forest Hill train until 6.40. The 6.28 has been disappeared. Not happy!
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