This is really poor and I agree with the sentiment about having to plan journeys a lot more.
Was the Victoria to LB service operational at all during various Covid lockdowns over the last 18 months? I’ve seen comments to say it was and also those saying it wasn’t.
Southern seem to blame staff shortages and lower passenger numbers based on their 6th September timetable announcement.
It’s very disappointing that Southern are running such a poor service… However if you do need to get to Victoria there are some rush hour direct services from Crofton Park into Victoria (it only stops at Denmark Hill and takes about 15-20mins). The train was fairly empty this morning.
The Victoria - London Bridge service which pre-Covid operated every 30 minutes 6 days a week (Monday - Saturday) hasn’t operated in full since Southern introduced an emergency timetable which from memory was quite soon after we went into the first lockdown.
In July 20 Southern added a few weekday morning and evening peak time services between Crystal Palace and London Bridge in each direction but these were removed from the timetable in February 21. In May 21 a few weekday morning and evening peak time services between Victoria and London Bridge in each direction were added to the the timetable in addition to a full Saturday service. Whilst the few Monday-Friday services were removed in the latest timetable change the full Saturday service is still operating.
Southern have been wanting to get rid of this service and save themselves some pennies for ages, let’s be honest.
When I used to get this route to and from work 5 years ago it was bloody dire at the best of times. It was always either cancelled or delayed. When it was delayed they made the passengers between Forest Hill and NCG suffer by chucking them off at Crystal Palace and then make them wait in the cold another 20mins for the next OG. Often they would chuck people off at Crystal Palace just as the OG was leaving the station just to thoroughly piss them off.
With the lack of tube lines in SE London you’d think TfL would bother to put more bus routes on or more frequent OG’s through FH.
Update on this - FHSoc have teamed up with SydSoc and we will be meeting with our MP and Southern to discuss this within the next few days.
As a side note, given there’s no fuel either, it’s 6.5 miles to Victoria, and there’s a lovely cycle route that takes you through Dulwich Park, Dulwich LTN aka Burbage Road, Railton Rd LTN, Brixton–>Stockwell bus lane and then Stockwell to Vauxhaul bus lane and then cycle lanes around Vauxhall pretty much all the way to Victoria. It’s my commute, and if anyone would like to buddy up and try it, I’d be happy to arrange a ride along with you. It’s a fairly leisurely 30-40 mins, quicker than trains or cars.
I should probably add to this that if anyone has any input in terms of constructive proposals to make on the matter then do feel free to contact me.
My thoughts are that at a high level, a loop line is critical for South London given that the other options are driving around the South Circular which is a joke, not in a funny way (especially in a fuel crisis), there are also no safe cycle routes around the centre, most transport is designed to go in/out. The only other option is the bus.
In terms of rail infrastructure I expect most of it is fixed cost so there’s a very small marginal cost of running extra trains - if a large portion of rail funding comes from fares then running fewer trains in fact reduces revenue so it makes no sense not to run these trains. If that’s not the case, then I would be interested in a real economic breakdown of running more trains on existing maintained track when the stations etc are already staffed.
I suspect that the issue really is the crossing over of trains across the two fast tracks through Forest Hill. This problem was solved at New Cross Gate by building the flyover. It may be that without trains crossing over eventually they will be able to schedule extra and more lucrative long distance and fast trains through to London Bridge.
To get from Forest Hill to Crystal Palace there is a flyover. Just after Sydenham the line branches off, climbs up then goes over a bridge over all four lines. There’s no physical limitation to it in either direction and they still have their original timetabled path (which is why currently you have up to 8 minutes between trains). It’s purely Southern withdrawing the service for whatever excuse they have.
I’ve been told it’s lack of drivers (my OH works for the railways - not Southern!).
I suspect this is not a profitable line, or not profitable enough. All transport companies will have seen huge loss of revenue during Covid, and will for a long time have a large deficit as less people travel into the office due to full time or hybrid working from home.
Good luck getting it, but of course if you did and it wasn’t profitable it would make things potentially harder.
I think it will be important to find the right points to argue, and those with greater legal understanding of the requirements on franchises will be best placed to assist, but I’d hope there is some stipulation over services they must run, and I think that might be the way to go. I don’t the profit angle is the one for this line, so I think it will need to obligations, public pressure, and maybe relief of pressure on other lines into London.
This is true, however you can get to Victoria by on the Overground, Jubilee and District lines in around 40 minutes which is not far off the Rail time from what I remember. So I think the argument here would be around relieving pressure on those lines, or increasing it without the Rail service, however I am unsure how busy those lines are during peak time post Covid.
As an aside I went into London on Friday and it was still fairly empty compared to pre-covid, so I expect companies will have to cut some services as they numbers are just not there, or they will need far more subsidies to keep certain lines running.
Good luck.
Clausy, what is the cycle route like to Dulwich park? Do you go along the south circular? I’m in the Perry Vale area and dislike hills/busy roads!
The London Loop is a very useful line for those with mobility or health issues, for whom changing lines (and even platforms at CP and Clapham Junction) is a worrying challenge.
That route is extremely busy at the times I travel into work - the jubilee line which has everybody already onboard from East London is the main culprit.
But it’s not the fact of just getting to Victoria it’s all the other lines in between Victoria and FH on the Southern route that we now can’t get to and it also reduces the amount of trains that go to London Bridge the other direction via FH. I used to have the option of getting the train home from London Bridge if I didn’t fancy the OG (which has been a lot recently because of how busy the OG is) and now I would have to wait 20minutes for the next train to FH. It has reduced a lot of travel options for FH commuters.
says our concerns are
I guess we can cross him off our list. Who appoints TFL Commissioners?
I think the tfl commissioner was appointed by the Mayor and the Board of TfL by a competitive application/ interview process.
In fairness he said that ‘taking over the line’ was not a priority. TfL board has very limited powers at present over Southern Rail or other services controlled or tendered by department of transport.
I’m not sure taking over the line should be a priority, even if it is my preferred option. TfL should prioritise the services they run, not those we would like them to run.
Well I suppose given the current finances of TfL they’ve got enough issues managing their current network so aren’t in a position to even think about taking on new routes. However as the government has effectively renationalised the railways during the pandemic and announced the creation of state-owned Great British Railways who will replace Network Rail in 2023 and control the contracting of all the railways in England maybe their is some hope for the future! 
The contracting will be modelled on TfL’s operation of contracting the services on all the London Overground routes.
It is a little difficult to talk about the franchising and relationship between DfT and TfL and the southern metro services without straying into politics. There was a thread about it on this site but as it strayed into politics I think it has been removed.
I would cover some of things I said in that thread but I don’t like it when sensible discussion is removed from the forum for being too political, so I’ll say no more on the subject other than, this is a politcal decision not a transport industry decision.
Looks like some good news about the London Bridge - Victoria peak hour services. As reported on the East Dulwich fourm, Helen Hayes MP received a letter from Southern which included the following: “In the next timetable change from Monday 13 December, we are planning to reintroduce the London Bridge to London Victoria service group in peak hours…”
https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,2222568,page=2
Those with the most effective representation get the best services