I think it’s pretty churlish to criticise Greta Thunberg when she has done so much to raise awareness of environmental issues, particularly among the younger generation. You will find that many young people are aware of her and her campaign, so it is great that they are engaged, as after all they are the ones who will be left to sort out this mess. So what if she has a career out of it? So does David Attenborough, who you complimented earlier. I also think it’s a bit much to expect a 16 year old to be able to solve environmental issues in India and China…
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Indeed - and i am not sure how much of a lucrative career she is getting out of it TBH. The point is we all have to do something and that will mean having to give up or limit activity we take for granted or as our right.
London is one of the best served and cheapest places in the country for public transport. I have managed to live here for nearly 20 years and never once felt the need to own a car. So I am not convinced that a lot of car journeys in London are necessary by any means.
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It is unfortunate that a lot of the traffic locally is due to the young. I was cycling down Dartmouth Road and there was a traffic congestion as people tried to drive up Thorpewood Avenue. This seems to be a common occurrence and seems to be mainly parents taking their kids to school or to the Pools. This seems to me penalize the people who walk and local residents, many of whom are children who are no doubt breathing in the exhaust and brake particles from these cars. I think the kids would be perfectly justified in blocking traffic as a gesture to show that they don’t like being poisoned by traffic.
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Many of the car drivers are parents dropping their children at school before going onto their work.
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Forest Hill has got great public transport, do all these parents who live in the very small catchment areas for these schools drive their kids to school and then drive off to work and not use public transport? I would echo Hannah, I am not convinced that a lot of car journeys in Forest Hill are necessary.
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It not really an excuse is it - when I was young , in an area with very very poor public transport, we walk over two miles or lift shared to get to primary school and then at secondary school (over 8 miles away) we all got the bus or train.
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I think part of the problem is that school hours are so short, that even if you can afford the breakfast club and after school care (AKA wrap-around care), there is so little time for commuting that driving directly between waypoints can become one of few options, especially if you have a second child going either to a nursery or different secondary school. The small catchment areas also mean there isn’t always much scope for choosing a school based on convenience of commute.
Of course it is very easy to judge others, but if you haven’t had children yourself or experienced the difficulties of managing work and child care or education, I appreciate it is difficult to empathise with those that do.
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I do have children going to both primary and secondary schools so I think I can empathise with those that do, who decide to drive and those who walk or take public transport. I would expect most secondary school kids to take public transport. It is free and really benefits kids as they become independent rather than relying on being driven everywhere.
I have taken my kids to nursery on public transport and walked as well. The small catchment areas means if you live in them you will be close to the great public transport facilities that Forest Hill offers and the local schools both primary and secondary schools that kids can walk to. There will always be exceptions but the majority could take public transport or walk if they wanted to. I am sure if we introduced parking charges outside schools, you would see a drop in people driving. People make the car choice because it is free and easy.
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Finding alternative ways of structuring our lives is hard but i think it’s necessary to put our time, energy, and resources into finding creative solutions. Things that are possible now as well as in the future (for those solutions that require government policy and funding).
Given all the loss heavily associated with air pollution: of health (stroke, cancer, asthma, heart disease, dementia, psychosis), of biodiversity, of a safe and stable future for our kids (via current trends of climate impacting food production).
In Hampstead parents have crowd funded school buses. That seems like a creative solution, but I’m sure there are other possibilities.
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I agree with this, secondary school age children shouldn’t need to be driven to school.
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You are lucky that this works out for you and your commute. Personally there is no direct bus for the route I take, and while the nursery is open from 8am, that still gives little time to dash back up to the overground. I know some nurseries open at 7am, but the location is even worse and availability is an issue. Breakfast club starts at 7:45 and needing to be in work for 9 makes it all a mad rush.
A car adds some convenience and makes it about possible, without taking more extreme measures such as moving house or job, both of which are not entirely a free choice either.
That’s probably true. 5p carrier bags show just how the difference between free and a few pence can motivate human behaviour.
Owning a car is far from free, and driving on and around London is anything but easy.
Anyway, back to my original point, if school hours were longer, public transport may be a more viable way to get to the school. I was thinking mainly of primaries, not secondaries, and interestingly enough I understand the wrap around care at Haseltine Primary, is free. I’m not sure if this is an attempt to ease pollution there, though from the Mayor of London’s report we still see 28% of journeys to/from school by car.
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I don’t think I am lucky that I was able to take my kids to nursery on public transport. I made a conscious decision to take them to nursery which involved 2 buses or walking. I could have used our car and I accept that it costs money to run a car but once you have it then the cost of driving to nursery is minimal as there was free parking and it would have been easier than dealing with 2 buses and occasional pushchair space issues with drivers. A lot of people make the choice to drive to school/nursery as parking is free and it is easy.
It does sound like you do have a difficult routine but I wonder if it is the norm and there aren’t parents who could walk to school with their kids and contribute to cleaner air for residents and kids around schools to breathe. I think these parents will continue unless some external forces nudge them towards more inclusive behaviour.
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I think “inclusive behaviour,” in the context of this topic, would be for us all to accept everyone has their own personal situation, and everyone has the right to choose the method of transport that best suits their situation.
Yes, we want people to drive electric cars / clean forms of public transport, and we want to get polluting cars, busses and taxis off the road. But there are changes that have to take place before this can happen (e.g. free market competition to drive down prices), and councils, mayors and government will need to play their part, too, putting viable public transport in place, and EV chargers. It’s not all down to the “behaviour” of drivers.
Chris, you’re obviously a person who takes personal responsibility and community extremely seriously. From what I can tell you’ve put, and continue to put, an immense amount of time and energy into creating and sustaining a community forum accessible to a whole spectrum of people to talk in a respectful way, even those that don’t agree with you. Conversely, everyone in this community needs to take personal responsibility to meet the standards you’ve set up.
Given all the thousands of people who say mass social communication companies need to do more, governments need to do more, the market needs to do more, nothing has really changed in social media. But you’ve changed our community. You’re a modern day superhero in our small SE23 space.
I cannot believe that action and change on any other issue would operate any differently. Saying it’s government or businesses or bus companies responsibilty is not going to lead to the changes we want to see. We all need to do our best, which is not easy. But it’s the only option if we want change.
Given the evidence links pollution with cancer, asthma, dementia, psychosis and given the IPCC indicates climate change might cause food shortages as early as 2040 if we don’t reduce emissions to zero by 2030, I think it’s a change that needs to be taken seriously.
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Thanks for the kind words @Mjohnstone
It’s everyone’s responsibility, agreed - but some individuals are achieving more than a million protest marches can achieve.
Leadership means finding positive ways to enact change. Inspiring people. Giving people appealing clean options, as opposed to hectoring people and simply banning dirty options.
Forming a mob and shouting at other people in the street is not the way forward IMO. Protests are zero-sum thinking.
As with all major societal leaps forward, technology will provide the solutions. We need to create the business-friendly regulatory environment that allows this to happen.
And we need to celebrate the individuals who are making it happen, not the individuals who are simply demanding that it happens.
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So we have to wait for our billionaire overlords to see they’ll make more billions before they act on our behalf to stem carbon emissions? Capitalism is such a lol. What a hostage situation we are in.
For what it’s worth, I think young people seeing these protests and learning about climate change will create many more Elon Musk-esque innovators in the future - hopefully ones who won’t flagrantly manipulate markets and who have some manners.
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The great thing about capitalism is it gives us all the opportunity to be an Elon Musk type, and for the smartest among us to make a positive difference to the world at massive scale.
I won’t go any further down the capitalism vs socialism / communism etc debate route as that’s not really appropriate for the main forum and should be in the opt-in general politics category.
While many, many others are left behind. Capitalism is far from a panacea and in the case of the climate emergency, it’s effects on the poorest and developing countries will be devastating.
Free market capitalism is benefiting too few at this time, I feel.
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