So it’s gonna cost money to cross the South Circ and get to the hospital now. Great!
I think the ULEZ extension is an expensive high profile political posture - to be seen to be doing something. It will be bad for Forest Hill - heavier traffic next to the station will undermine efforts to revitalize the town centre, and the surveillance infrastructure will add to the impression that Forest Hill is a place to drive through, rather than a place to arrive.
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The Forest Hill Society executive committee met a couple of weeks ago to discuss the appropriate response to this consultation, taking account of what is in the best interest of the health of local residents, impact on traffic, and economic impact for business and residents in the area.
The response from the society can be read on the website. But the summary is:
The Forest Hill Society would like to see a larger ULEZ, with strong penalties for non-compliance, and as soon as possible. Additionally, we have concerns about impacts on Forest Hill residents from potentially greater numbers of polluting vehicles using the South Circular as a result of your current proposal to exclude this road from the ULEZ.
We hope that this response represents what we have heard in the local community, including on this forum. Although we cannot possibly represent everybody’s views, we hope to have captured some of the key concerns. We would also recommend completing the survey yourself to share your views/concerns with TfL (as well as on this forum).
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If you could give me some time to save up for a new car first - that would be grand 
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Thank Micheal, completed. The more who complete the survey the better. I fully agree with FHS and that the zone should be larger. I think it should be the M25 if they are going to do this they might as well encompass all of Greater London.
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Maybe, but for a very good reason. As long as we’re governed by EU law, it is actually a legal requirement to be doing something. Not staying within legal pollution limits risks being taken to court, and Europe is actively exploring possible sanctions for offenders across the continent as we speak, as they’ve started to lose their patience with members not playing by the rules they’ve set for themselves. Elsewhere, the car industry is already getting very anxious about possible driving bans looming.
After 2021, I believe we’re free to keep polluting the air to our liking, should we decide to change what will by then be national law. I think being cognisant of the number of deaths caused by air pollution that we shouldn’t.
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Yes, for the UK Government, not City Hall. If certain vehicles should be taken off the road, there needs to be national action, not action by individual towns and cities.
This may be technically correct, but is unhelpful, because the issue is a very much a localised one. In practice, it would make sense that UK Government has devolved responsibility to tackle local pollution to City Hall, but I’m not sure whether that’s actually the case.
I expect that the government would have asked the Mayor to come up with an answer to the pollution challenge from Brussels, and that is what has happened.
Should the only remaining available measure be a driving ban (which would be the most drastic course of action), UK Government would also most likely ask City Hall (and other local authorities elsewhere) to enforce it, so they’re acting on behalf either way.
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Household cleaning products as bad for lung function as smoking, study finds
A headline in the (now behind paywall) Telegraph.
The science on causes of lung disease is in flux and I wouldn’t bank on any of it. Is it not the case that in many respects air quality in London has improved? Low sulphur diesel; unleaded petrol; industrial emissions now much reduced in London, cigarette smoke banished in social spaces … etc.
The Independent has the story too:
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An update from the Environment, Health, Transport and Environmental Audit committees:
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Saw this too, wonder how long before they issue face masks for people in the worst of it.
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@ChrisBeach moved into existing topic
Does everyone know that in 2021 they are extending the emission zone to the south circular.
I am all for improvement to air quality but does the Mayor expect everyone to go out and buy brand new cars!
Personally I cannot afford paying an extra £12
a day to have a car inside the zone. Here
Is a link to a petition if anyone wants to sign it.
Can you imagine the increase in pollution levels on that ring road and in the area just outside of its circumference?
How can there be any justification for shifting a high proportion of polluting traffic away from one area if the result is that people in another area will suffer from far higher concentration of pollutants?
I believe that if the charge was dropped to, say, £2.50 a day, it would still have a significant effect but it wouldn’t make travel in the new extended area so prohibitive that it pushes all the pollution on us.
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I would think the Mayor expects us to sell our cars - or at least use them less.
Children are dying near here because of pollution. That means that when you get into a car, you are helping to kill them.
Motor vehicles are helpful for many people and around half of the residents of Lewisham have access to one, but there is a huge amount of evidence that people use cars for trips that could easily be achieved by walking, cycling or public transport.
Personally, I don’t think the zone goes far enough.
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Most petrol cars made after 2005 are compliant and will not be charged. The big offenders are diesels and only ones made after September 2016 are compliant.
As someone who has had serious health issues with his lungs and jumps at any opportunity to get out of London to somewhere with fresh air I only wish the ULEZ extension could come sooner!
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The report on the tragic case you referred to states that the South Circular Road has notoriously high levels of pollution. Let’s assume that instead of everyone selling their cars or not using them, the ones who don’t want to pay the £12-a-day charge will predominently use that road and serious ill health - or worse - will prevail all along that route.
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If you live on or outside the South Circular, I fear this ULEZ zone change may make your situation worse.
Government lever-pulling tends to create winners and losers.
Pollution on the A205 can hardly get much worse. It is full to the brim right now. Any reduction on the roads to the north will help the air quality of the whole region. It may also deter people from the south from passing through SE23.
In any case, it seems that people are not giving up their cars for short journeys - this is one measure that the government can use to help society. We have accepted rule changes so that the the rights of everyone to not breathe air in enclosed spaces from smokers are protected. This is not so different.
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I agree with Chris on this. The false equivalence of the north and south circular roads for this implementation is daft. The south London boundary should be somewhere much further south than us.
- declaring interests - we live in Perry Vale ward though we don’t have a car of the type affected
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I don’t think this will push much additional traffic onto the south circular or roads further out. Some yes, but a small amount compared to the traffic levels already seen on the south circular.
What will improve is that all large businesses with fleets, or even small businesses travelling within London on a daily basis, will want to upgrade their vehicles. This will make more of a difference than the occasional trips by occasional driverd made by people outside the zone to avoid crossing the boundary.
People looking to buy replacement cars can purchase 15 year old petrol cars that will be compliant. Generally speaking you can pick up a 15 year old car for a reasonable price but you may find yourself with a less nice car than the polluting one you drive today. (For disclosure: my car is compliant and will be 15 years old in 2021 and i rather like my car).
The thing that concerns me is rat-running inside the zone and this comes down to the south circular being a poor choice of boundary. Unless there will be thousands of cameras across London we can expect to see cameras only on major boundaries - for example London Road and Honor Oak Road but possible not Devonshire Road. Allowing any gaps in camera coverage will allow people living within the zone with polluting vehicles to bypass the cameras. Another example in the same area would be popping down to sainsburys from Westwood Park. Assuming there is a camera on the Honor Oak Road / London Road junction you may find it cheaper to pop down Manor Mount the wrong way and risk a fine rather than the certainty of being seen leaving the zone in your polluting car and get an automatic £20 charge. It only take a few hundred situations like this every day to make London’s roads less safe.
A lot will come down to implementation. In North London it will be fine. In South London i predict unforseen complications (known unknowns - as Donald Rumsfeld would call them) and i don’t think TfL can have a clue about how to resolve all the issues in a financially responsible way.
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