Eh-Scooters. You have been warned, my British Friends

Crime
#84

That’s not what I said. There are far more cars and they are bigger so they will cause more injuries, sure. A car going at 30mph will generally cause more serious injury than one going at 20mph, or 15, or 10, or 5. Agreed.

I expressed an opinion on what I would prefer out of the two options. For my situation, where I walk my kids to school and various after school activities I am more concerned about escooters and bikes on the pavement, which I see and we have to make way for regularly (less so on the morning school run).

I am more concerned about an unexpected escooter on the pavement than us not seeing a car coming in the road if that makes sense. That doesn’t detract from the point about cards being dangerous the faster they go but that is how I feel.

Perhaps it’s becuase we live on a main road, and therefore more escooter and bike traffic natually goes that way, and consequently you have more on the pavements. I’m not making it up I promise.

For the sake of objectivity I will say in my time here I have known 3 cars come off the road on the road I live on and destroy walls - I’m not aware of the specific reasons for them but suspect speed will have been involved at least in part in some of them.

I don’t have a speed gun but Id’ say I’ve seen in at least 5 occasions. 5 occasions doesn’t sound much but as more and more escooters come into service that could become more problematic. It is generally later in the say, probably post 7pm in fairness, for this sort of speed.

I typically spend a couple of days going around the SE23 each week and I see them daily, both on and off the pavement. I’m not saying it’s an epidemic, but it’s not rare either. Maybe it’s less common at weekends?

Agreed. I would personally hope one day we can have more police patrols as whilst speed is one issue, the way some people drive is crazy, overtaking on roads like Cranston, no indicating etc etc. I’m not a fan of blanket 20mph, I’d prefer a 5-10mph outside schools around opening and closing, maybe 20mph from 7.30am to 9pm and then 30mph after that but suspect that would be too complicated. I would like a lower speed limit around all schools though.

I go back to my main point though, and that this doesn’t have to be about cars - this is about escooters on pavements which are a big no for me, on the road fine.

I think properly segragated cycle lanes work well and I’d generally be all for what you suggest. I’ve used them to cycle to West London and it’s very pleasant. I think if oyu could have them down Brockley Rise and the South Circular linked to residential roads bikes could join from that would be fantastic, but many things to come together for that to happen.

However where I sued to work near Old Street they changed a roundabout and the surrounding pavement layout to make the pdestrian and road level as one. I don’t think I’ve seen anything ever force cars to drive as slowly and carefully as that.

2 Likes
#85

This post was flagged and is temporarily hidden.

2 Likes
#86

What makes you believe that the majority of users here do not hold a driving license?

5 Likes
#87

Here is an image from google maps, it’s the junction of Leonard Street and Paul Street. I think they basically paved the junction, there are now food stalls there and some trees and benches (not sure if they were there before). Because of the paving cars slow down, pedestrians walk across etc in harmony. A different mindset if you like.

PSR.PNG
PSR.PNG1896×878 205 KB

// I’ve not been there in quite a long time so some things may have changed etc.

#88

This post was flagged and is temporarily hidden.

4 Likes
#89

I must say, I’d find that terrifying. And that paving looks as if it would be a nightmare for anyone reliant on a wheeled walker.

#90

I think that’s the thing, you’d think it would be bad, but in practice it;s fine. When I heard they were doing it, I thought it was madness, but actually it worked (I think they have this in other places they had looked at, they didn’t just take a punt on it).

Can’t answer the point about the wheeled walker, but there remains a more traditional pavement to use if required and you could cross further up or down where it is more traditional road.

1 Like
#93

I like it. Maybe the front of the station area and the dangerous S Circular pedestrian crossing areas could be like that. Slow everything down to walking pace for just a minute so we can cross roads and go about our business safely.

1 Like
#94

Effectively you’re making it a pedestrian area cars can go across as opposed to a road pedestrians can go across, which leads to a mind change for anyone using it, quite simple when you think about it.

Not sure how it would work on the South Circular but the junction outside the station would benefit from something like the Oxford Circus crossing, though I understand that was very expensive for some reason.

I suspect you need good sightlines for it, and probably on 20mph roads vs 30mph ones for these ones with no traffic lights etc. Anyway, I am way off topic, it’s not the solution to everything but could work in certain places.

1 Like
#95

This looks like the type of design sometimes referred to Shared Space originally developed in the Netherlands. The idea is that by taking away segregation and priorities you actually slow motorised traffic down and encourage all road users to negotiate who comes first. An added benefit is a more visually attractive streetscape that takes away the domination of the car.

It got trialled in a fair few places in the UK. The one that perhaps got most attention was redevelopment of the Exhibition Road in Kensington in 2012. The approach always had more critics here than in some other countries and is no longer supported by UK standards. Some of the criticism came from accessibility groups with particular concerns in relation to people with visual impairment.

1 Like
#96

I travel to City Rd everyday via the ‘main’ Old Street Roundabout which has been under alteration for at least 2 years now, this is apparently creating a safer space for cyclists and pedestrians. Unfortunately this has resulted in chaos for buses in the area, an increase of idling traffic in general and of course cyclists deciding whether to use the designated cycle lanes depending on whether the lights controlling them are green or not.

As I’ve said on here before there are stupid cyclists and stupid motorists, unfortunately for those in favour of less cars on the road, the most vocal in their community are becoming more and more militant and irrational which is leading to a greater divide between all road users. I would have hoped that campaigners for any cause would have learned from the european referendum, if you patronise those you don’t agree with, those who are indifferent are unlikely to back those they consider as bullies.

Apologies for going off the topic of E-Scooters, but it has become impossible to have a rational conversation on here (and most social media) about the use of motorised vehicles.

5 Likes
#97

Some years ago the mini-roundabout at the back of East Croydon train station was flattened with kerbs removed in something that must have been inspired by the ‘shared space’ concept. It seemed ok to me (as a pedestrian) with road edges marked with tactile paving presumably for the visually impaired:

1542×640 173 KB

More recently it’s been reconfigured and has been peppered with road markings and bollards to make the following slightly confusing monstrosity (though the addition a cycle storage for the station is at least good thing):

1365×534 124 KB

I guess the plan here is to bamboozle road users into slowing down, speed limited or not.

1 Like
#98

I guess the plan here is to bamboozle road users into slowing down, speed limited

If that was indeed their plan I think they can consider it to be “job done”.

3 Likes
#99

That’s a load of bollards…

3 Likes
#100

More detail about that re-working of that particular road (and surrounding) here:

Now slightly less straight forward to cut through to Wellesley Road, though I suppose that might be one of the broader points of the exercise

1 Like
#101

There are indeed stupid ones on both sides, applies also to eScooter riders. The difference of course is that they have a vastly different impact, pun intended due to kinetic energy of cars being orders of magnitude higher. That’s why you need a license and insurance to drive a car and not to ride a bike or an eScooter. They are not equivalent.

I’m not sure what you mean why this exactly? Is this simply dressing up people as another flavour of ‘angry mobs’ again - I thought we’d moved on from that eh? Is telling people they can cycle to Victoria in 30 mins, or ‘please drive less if you can’ considered militant? Perhaps we could start another topic in the #lounge to discuss this if you’d like.

1 Like
#102

Why we can’t all just get along and see things from each others perspective. If we all act sensibly there’s enough room on the roads for cyclists, e-scooterists, grown men riding skateboards and normal people.

9 Likes
#103

So why do you compare them?

Militant, favouring confrontational methods in pursuit of a social or political cause, such as using passive aggressive words, like eh.
Irrational, not logical or reasonable, comparing the limiter being removed from a car which has a top speed of 155 mph but will never be driven on the pavement, to increasing the speed of an e scooter which are to be seen regularly on pavements.

No need for any new thread, that would only end up going down the same path.

2 Likes
#104

4 posts were split to a new topic: Posts moved from E-scooters

#108

The police say that e-scooters are the equivalent of a motor car. That is why they require MOT, insurance and number plates, if used on the road or the pavement.
The logic used above seems to me to be like someone saying “I’m not as bad as him. I only stab people. He shoots them.”

1 Like