Yeah we considered maybe starting a petition, just trying to asses if we have enough time and how affective it would be but I suppose what’s the worst that could happen, maybe I will start one ASAP, I think other friends involved are trying to make another attempt to plea. Will inform!
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Good morning! Discovered the skatepark this morning and what a find! Don’t supposed anyone would be interested in being photographed skating and hanging out at the park before it gets demolished? I’m @ollyburn on Instagram
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I may not pass that way before August the 8th, but would love to see a picture or two of what has been done.
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Maybe we can get it listed as a historic monument? Genuine example of Covid-19 (2020) distancing archicture. It takes years to go through the process
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Please don’t be too critical of the people at DE; they are a charitable trust and as such the trustees overriding legal duty is solely to advance the purposes of the charity within the governing document and the law so it is very likely that their hands are tied even if they are sympathetic.
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LOL they are self serving money grabbing *****
Nivag, if you care to look at their website you will see that the money they “grab” funds bursaries for over 300 children per year from poorer families to attend the 7 schools and colleges that they support; the numerous almshouses that provide accommodation for poor older people; the upkeep of Christ’s Chapel and the many private roads and amenities of the wider estate and all of this is governed by 13 unpaid trustees. Not exactly what I would describe as “self serving”.
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These days charities are also supposed to help the public. Personally, I think allowing a derelict site to be used for recreational purposes meets this description.
However, I suspect that they have an ultimate plan for the use of the site and feel that the skateboard park would make it more difficult to get planning permission.
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@JohnH1 Are you seeing a different part of the website to me? I see they fund 7 private schools whose fees stretch the word ‘charity’ to absurdity and they support 1 almshouse which supports 15 people and provides 43k a year in grants to other charities (about 15% of their annual cost).
I’m not denying they are a charity - but they are incredibly focused on private schooling.
They collect £200k a year in tolls on a road which shouldn’t be private at all - but does increase their portfolio value
The Trustees appear to be unpaid - but as far as I can tell do have their property charges reembursed - but this isn’t clear
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If you have Instagram search for the grove diy!!
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Why shouldn’t the road be private - there are hundreds of private roads in London?
The estate alone has over 70 roads (or parts of roads) which are their responsibility and there are many more dotted around south London.
I have to admit that I work for one of the schools that receive funding from DE and regardless of the dubious nature of the charitable status the monies received from the estate go to bursaries rather than general running costs allowing less well off people to attend the school - as some of my friends children have.
More to the point however is their reputation as being extremely hard nosed, rent rising landlords - there is a lot of history there and not all of it is good. However with the appointment of Simone Crofton there has been a change of emphasis in that they are trying to promote Dulwich Village and bring in shops like the Proud Sow to attract footfall to the area.
The pub and car park are leased to Stonegate until 2025 so DE are getting paid no matter what happens to it. It must be costing them a fortune to have it sitting there empty so they must be eyeing a pay day down the line…
A Dulwich Estate spokeswoman said: “No other pub operator [besides Stonegate] is interested in the premises. Therefore, The Dulwich Estate hopes that the whole site can be redeveloped for mixed use with a commercial element to provide employment and high quality housing, including affordable homes. This would support the Council’s vision for jobs and homes under the New Southwark Plan. As with any development, proposals will have to satisfy local authority requirements, but also be sustainable.”
I think it is a great place for a pub but it will end up as generic flats…
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Why wouldn’t another pub operator be interested in the premises? Surely a place of that size, with a car park and right beside the South Circ, would be a great proposition in normal circumstances?
I totally agree - I think it is a great venue with tons of customers on the doorstep. However I think the costs of renting and redeveloping it now would be prohibitive for most pub companies - it was never sorted after a fire back in 2014.
@Foresthillnick I believe the tolgate has been contentious for centuries - the difference between this and other private roads is that it actually goes somewhere - most private roads don’t. The council has tried before to take it, but Dulwich Estates demands compensation - probably something like the 200k a year they collect * 100 years
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Are there really many customers around? Two sides are park and school, the other two sides seem to be mainly family houses (I know there are council blocks immediately next door). Further away you are competing with Dulwich and FH
My son is 14 and he’s been going to The Grove skate park for a while now. Like most kids, there’s been no school since March, and like most of us early on he rarely saw his friends and had little contact outside his home.
Since we’ve been allowed more freedom the skate park has become somewhere he chooses to go as it’s one of the few options that’s been available. Where older people might be meeting friends in the local parks, I don’t think these are quite as safe a place for younger people at the moment. Last week he was nearly mugged for phones and money in the grounds of the Horniman museum with a group of friends by some covid masked youths on bikes. He avoids seemingly safe places such as Dulwich park for the same reasons.
He says at The Grove he feels safe as there’s older people there who are looking after the place. I thinks this is one reality of where we are now living in society.
I’m a leaseholder living on Dulwich Estate
since 2003. Glad to hear they’ve got someone more forward thinking on board. Compared
to the bucolic experience of passing through Dulwich village proper, I’m really quite surprised how they’ve allowed the Grove to become so neglected a site over recent years.
Some respect and support is due to the people who are putting this space to some good use for local young people. It may look shabby and DIY whilst you’re queuing in traffic at the lights, but it’s certainly not as bad as the empty waste ground thats been there for the last six years.
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Most leases require the tenant to maintain the property and restore it to its original condition on termination of the lease. Options might be to forfeit the lease, but DE could not collect rents. Or require the tenant to maintain the property, which seems to be the more sensible solution.
Obviously, I cannot examine the lease, but this is the normal position.
Sadly, it probably suits everybody to let the property become derelict in order to make demolition easier.
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Until the Dulwich Beer Dispensary opened there were no pubs in either direction for quite some way so I think there is demand there under normal circumstances. It isn’t actually that close to the school and there is a estate to the north west and masses of residential to the north and east over the road. Plus there are plenty of people going to the walk and to the sports clubs along the circ…
Anyway I don’t think it will ever be a pub again regardless of what I think. Seems destined to be redeveloped at some point.
According to the DE accounts they take 201,000 a year on the road but spend 142,000 maintaining the road and running the toll. They do say that
It helps to control the volume of traffic and heavy goods vehicles using this section of the road and lessens the environmental impact on the surrounding area.
I must say it is one of the nicest roads around to cycle up and, better yet, down,
Most of the pubs where I live have closed.
We don’t have the culture of popping down to the pub for a pint as much as we used to have. It might have a lot to do with the price of a pint in a pub.
Also I expect that the Grove may have lost a few locals to local sports grounds, if they have their own bar.
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