@DevonishForester I do agree - but remember this isn’t actually a Lewisham road - it is a TfL road and they do not give a shit because the problem isn’t on their road. (Red route stops 10m into Devonshire Road)
How would you do this aside from putting up a ROAD CLOSED sign?
If someone is dumb enough to drive down a closed road and falls into a hole then they absolutely deserve it. It’s like driving on the pavement in a company van and then complaining you get fired level of stupidity.
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The same way Thames Water did it three years ago. Heavy duty fencing across the entire junction, additionally have the works crew park their vans blocking the road in case anyone needs the message reinforcing.
The A205 may not be, but most of Devonshire Road is. I am sure if there was any serious intent on the part of Lewisham, they could get TFL’s agreement as they have done previously. What possible objection from TFL? The Mayor is in favour of walking, cycling, social-distancing, It’s only Lewisham that is preventing this happening.
Yes, but the pedestrians, cyclists and work crew, don’t deserve to be exposed to unnecessary danger. It is also possible that a driver wouldn’ know the road is closed because the sign has been removed and there is no physical barrier.
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I get what you say, which is exactly why I said the junction itself needs to be closed properly. But it’s still drivers fault. If a driver actively chooses to ignore a road closed sign then they need to take personal responsibility. I’m a driver, and if I see the sign then I don’t go past it.
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The road outside our hose was dug up last week. There were 5 signs down the country lane leading to us that said “Road Closed”. People still drove nearly a mile down a windy country lane to find…it was closed.
I put a nice sign up on the road works saying “Yes, it is actually closed”.
Some people are a special kind of stupid.
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Unfortunately when signs are used for closures that are completely arbitrary, drivers will stop taking them seriously.
I’m not justifying drivers ignoring signs, but just pointing out the human nature aspect.
When rules are arbitrary and are simply aimed at inconveniencing drivers, it’s natural that drivers will stop respecting those rules.
In this case, drivers seeing the signs didn’t know whether there was a genuine hazard in the road, or whether this was just another ideological road closure by the council.
What prevents either TfL of Lewisham Council from placing concrete barriers at either end of Devonshire road?
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@SophieDavis, just wanted to say thank you for posting here. I really appreciate your updates from the council.
I know you’re under no obligation to post on this forum, and I’m sorry to see that you got an angry and shouty reply from one of our members above.
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In this case the closure is necessary on safety grounds; it is not arbitrary.
That is the question I think every resident deserves an answer to.
I think Chris’ point is along the lines of the Cry Wolf story. If they make arbitrary closures then people become immune and ignore the signs in cases where they are closed on safety grounds.
@anon5422159 I do however disagree that the road closures in the link from the other thread are arbitrary. There are URLs posted there to closures being council policy to calm streets and make them safer for pedestrians and cyclists - perhaps you mean the selected roads appear to be arbitrary because the council hasn’t made their reasons public. Silverdale for example is a notorious ‘cut through’ as defined in the council’s strategy (albeit they called it something else) - seems evident that was not an arbitrary decision.
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Yes that was my point. In this case, the road closure is vital. Which is why it’s dangerous that drivers have become desensitised/mistrustful of “Road Closed” signs due to the council’s recent ideological road closures.
Bad news:
Someone has moved the Road closed sign
Traffic is getting stuck by the pavement repairs and this is backing traffic up and out onto the S Circ. Idiots.
I assume the No Parking signs were supposed to cover the works period but haven’t been extended as they ended on June 30th.
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And finally there’s a Road Closed sign with Diversion up at Ewelme Road - I watched 3 people stop, think about it and then just keep going.
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Some boxes have been ticked, everyone can tell themselves that they’ve done their bit, moved it out of their in-tray. The reality is that the road remains open to two way traffic. The tick-box bureaucratic going-through-the-motions style of governance seems wholly inappropriate to a pandemic situation, and a dereliction of the Council’s duty of care.
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Hi all,
Thanks for your comments, feedback, and the photos (they are helpful, and I have been passing them on to officers).
I understand that Thames Water will now be taking over the site (today), after which they will begin the repair works. This sort of repair usually requires a large excavation and will likely require the whole carriageway being fenced off, in which case it won’t be possible to drive through or around the site.
I will get in touch with Thames Water separately about their plans, and timelines.
Sophie
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Last time there were roadworks and it was barriered off cars just mounted the pavements and drove down them instead all week. I won’t hold my breath that this won’t happen again.
It’s not a big deal as the section of Devonshire Road to be worked on can be bypassed easily using Woodcombe Crescent and Ewelme Road.
You’d think! But that’s the current diversion in place which people are also choosing to ignore. But we’ll see…
Meanwhile, the pavement refurb will continue without an effective road closure?