Wearing a mask seems like a small thing I personally can’t take issue with.
It’s like sneezing into a tissue or handkerchief - polite, simple and going some way to help stop the spread of disease.
I don’t think anyone took issue with the Catch It, Kill It, Bin It campaigns of the past. I’m not sure why this particular issue is so controversial.
I posted the Guardian article because it had been written by a scientist I respect - and who has provided a lot of nuanced articles over the last 6 months. She’s supported schools opening, supports outdoor activities and has generally suggested that people do need to take responsibility for the level of risk they are comfortable with. It’s not my only source of research. 
I do agree that for most people who catch it, it won’t impact them particularly. But there’s a sizeable minority who will be seriously ill and potentially have long-term side effects. The myocardial effects being seen in young fit people are alarming. And I wouldn’t want to see a complete lock down. And I agree that some people seem to have no concept of not touching/cleaning their mask.
I’d understand the ‘mask’ argument more if it was actually onerous. If they were asking me to disinfect my house and driveway every day, or live in a ventilated tent to reduce the risk, then fine. But putting a bit of fabric over my nose and mouth and washing it regularly doesn’t feel particularly challenging. And if doing it, can stop even a small fraction of people suffering, I’ll keep going.
That is what i find so odd, it really isn’t too difficult a thing to do. I have had various jobs where i have had, from time to time, to wear PPE - steep toe capped boots, gloves, stab proof vests, hard hats, masks etc… including having to wear a respirator mask in summer heat shovelling grain for hours on end. None of it is comfortable - wearing a piece of soft breathable cloth on my face while getting the bus or shopping really isn’t much of an imposition.
I agree with the commenters above, that masks are a trivial burden and we should wear them if advised by the experts.
There’s only one argument I can see for not wearing them (but I imagine this has been weighed up and ruled out):
By avoiding lockdown and masks during the summer months, we would allow the disease to spread evenly amongst the population (particularly the young) at a time when window ventilation and UV exposure would be high. These two factors would reduce the viral load, meaning that individual infections would be less catastrophic and easier to recover from. Once the virus has spread evenly throughout the population, particularly the young (and yes, people will die as a result), enough people will have developed immunity that the R number will be sub-1.0 and the virus will decline, saving lives in the winter period, where viral loads are higher and more deadly.
It was a triumph of leadership that led to Nightingale being created (one of the largest hospital facilities in the world, built in just nine days).
And a triumph of leadership - and the UK public’s adherence to guidelines - that led to this hospital being mostly unused.
Nightingale wasn’t a “joke” - it was a f**king triumph.
It isn’t that long ago - every bus had a conductor and every train had a guard.
almost none of these reduce the benefit to other people.
Are you implying you believe the exposure to covid and flu have similar levels of risk to elderly people? Because they don’t.
It’s possible this is true. It’s also possible that we might be doing better than Sweden. We won’t know for years and we have to make decisions now.
Just to follow on, this article in the New England Journal of Medicine (whilst not yet peer reviewed) https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913 was widely reported in the British Press a few days ago and highlights that wearing masks may help to promote herd immunity as it may expose you to lower doses to which you can then successfully make antibodies whilst remaining asymptomatic.
We are all adults here. Let’s keep to topic 
The military did their job and built a hospital. What people failed to realise was there was no staff to run it. You can’t conjure ICU physicians out of thin air.
It wasn’t lockdown that made it obsolete either. It was over estimating the severity of the virus and bad scientific modelling (Sweden didn’t need field hospitals).
I’m still of the opinion that lockdown causes more deaths, hardship and lasting economic/health damage than the virus. Will these tyrannical people forcing it on others (just like the mask) take responsibility for it in a years time??? Of course not!
I disagree, I think that’s exactly why it wasn’t needed. Look at the US - they’re going down the ‘don’t take muh freedoms’ route and they have 20% of the total global fatalities for 4% of the population. Clearly the ‘over estimating severity’ strategy isn’t working for them very well.
Every state in the US is like a different country. Taking overall data like that is the perfect example of presenting the same data in different way to prove a point.
If you look at new York state, who had harsh lockdown measures, they have a population of 20m with 32,000 deaths. Florida state 21m population only 13,000 deaths. Key difference being new York made the same care home mistake the UK did.
@Hollow - while this is possibly interesting debate, please note that this topic is about Covid-19 rules on public transport and we are getting a little wide of the mark (again!).
If you would like to discuss the wider approach to Covid and it’s implications, may I suggest we start a topic in #ethikos?
In looking at all these numbers, there’s an element of time alongside them. In your example above, the NY deaths were mostly early on when there was no guidance on wearing masks. Since mask wearing became mandatory, their death rate has dropped as exponentially as it rose. In the early days, there were also still debates on how best to treat serious cases. The US states with least mask mandates, have the highest rates - so you could present that as a good reason we should wear them.
I accept that for a few people, masks aren’t appropriate but I’ve yet to hear a good reason why a generally healthy individual shouldn’t.
This post was flagged and is temporarily hidden.
I have read a great deal on this topic and have doctors in the family. Everything I learn from these tells me we must distance ourselves from others if we cannot stay home, and that masks are the best protection if everyone follows the rules.
I don’t know what kind of malign intent someone must have to go on a public messageboard and encourage people to behave in ways that could kill themselves and others. But I certainly will not believe an anonymous person on a message board above my own well-honed ability to read and analyze information.
As I said above, there’s many who think these measures cause more harm than the virus itself.
I’m not encouraging people to not follow government policy. You are putting words in my mouth. I don’t even use public transport. I’m debating the disproportionate response of Government and giving a voice to the many people suffering greatly due to all these measures. The responses I’ve got above are exactly why people don’t speak up.
Many of you don’t understand the difference between correlation and causation. Yet you’re more than willing to call me an idiot or take emotional arguments against me.
I get it, this forum is one big echo chamber. Just like most online communities anyone with a differing view is quickly outed and leaves. Don’t worry I’ll probably be gone after this thread as well.
It would be a shame if this thread caused you to leave. I haven’t found your argument convincing but you have made it clearly.
I think this is one of the biggest problems in the world today - everyone has their own 24-7 amplifying echo chamber. I keep a friend on Facebook (someone I don’t know who I befriended because they share my name) who posts endless amounts of content (including fake news) on topics including QAnon, climate change, Trump, COVID, BLM. I almost defriended him because he posts so much, but then I thought it was a good idea to see what other people of differing views see on their Facebook.
There are a couple of posts above which made personal attacks on you, and I see one of them has already been flagged and collapsed. Like @Beige, I don’t agree with all your points, but I want to hear them. I hope you don’t leave the forum.
We live in an open society in which everyone should be able to voice their opinion. This is not a police state in which we can only voice the propaganda from the government. I don’t get offended by Hollow’s views although I do not agree. But that’s life. I tell my kids not everyone will agree or like them in school but it doesn’t mean we should not be courteous and polite to them. Anyway off topic again 
I got angry at news on gang grooming and senseless murders. There are enough bad news in this world as it is.
