I was really up for doing the Community Speed Checks, but damned if I’m going to be an enforcement agent for Lewisham Council’s counter-productive 20mph limits.
On the other hand I’m happy to take part if it means I can ensure only drivers at 36mph and above are targeted, and not drivers doing a sensible 30mph on main roads.
Ok - mea culpa - I shouldn’t have said “on the plus side” about the police being used to enforce this. What I meant was, in a situation where most drivers had been operating under the assumption that there was no sanction for exceeding the speed limit (ACPO and the Met had both said for a long time that enforcement of 20mph limits was an issue for local authorities and not the police) it was a bit pointless to have the limit.
As I’ve said before, I’d rather have a 30mph limit enforced and obeyed than a 20 limit which just leads to inconsistent speeds and dangerous unexpected behaviour as idiots try to overtake in unwise places.
For what I meant on police enforcement (prior to 2013, mainly), see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/10323354/Police-ready-to-get-tough-on-20mph-limits.html.
Unfortunately @anon5422159 the 20 limit will now mean (from http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences_guidance_on_fixed_penalty_notices/)
The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has issued speed enforcement policy guidance, which suggests that enforcement will normally occur when a driver exceeds the speed limit by a particular margin. This is normally 10 per cent over the speed limit plus 2 mph. It also sets guidelines for when it would not be appropriate to issue a fixed penalty notice but to issue a summons instead (see below). Note that these are guidelines and that a police officer has discretion to act outside of them providing he acts fairly, consistently and proportionately.
Speed limit: 20 mph
ACPO charging threshold: 24 mph
Summons: 35 mph
Thanks for the info, astonishing and disappointing though it is.
I can’t imagine the courts will be happy about being flooded with drivers who’ve “sped” at 35mph.
I just re-read your excellent post on the other thread, @dave and was reminded you were one of those who agreed that the new limits would be counterproductive.
If anyone wanted to reply regarding 20mph limits, best to continue the chat on the 20mph limits thread so as to keep this thread focused on Community Speed Watch.
20’s have their place for sure, but blanket is stupid as we have said over and over. I tried all the way to work to see how it would be dealt with, driving at 20 and seeing the queues building, and watching the impatience grow.
Here is an interesting question though… On these delicate and high risk roads, where every mph counts, should buses and larger vehicles have slower speed limits, given that their stopping distances are rather different to those of a passenger car.
Just a thought I had while driving along Brockley Road at 20mph today, being undertaken and shaken by buses in the bus lane…
I liked your post because of the info you shared NOT because I like the way LC money is spent in this case.
I find some money is wasted in some areas & not on others & also find money is better spent elsewhere than on what is decided by LC.
Yes there is a budget to set & yes savings have to be made, but what is most important to locals in our community?
Time for another thread possibly @moderators - maybe “Due to cuts from Central Government what funded services in SE23 do you think iare a necessity/priority and what could we live without” probably not thie right title for this but hope you get my jist guys.
I wouldn’t want this in Politicos but just in general what means more to locals with the services LC can provide financially for the community.
Today I was nearly run over on Sydenham Road near the train station. I was crossing the road on the pedestrian crossing when an idiot decided he was too important to sit in traffic, sped down the wrong side of the road, and drove through the red light of the crossing. Fortunately the lady with a baby in a pram had already crossed, but I had to sprint out of the way. When a car beeped him he just waved his hand in the air in a kind of ‘so what’ way. Afterwards I wondered if there’s anything you can do about this kind of thing? Obviously I didn’t have video footage but can you report this type of driving? It was extremely reckless. My guess is that because he was driving on the wrong side of the road and there was a lorry in front of the traffic lights he didn’t realise it was on red. The pedestrians on the crossing didn’t seem to bother him though, felt like I was in GTA…
Sorry - I just needed to have a rant about that!
Thanks for the info, @anon93536262. I hear you @Pauline and I am frustrated with the council spending so much money on the counter-productive 20mph limits.
I wonder if this is the same idiot I saw the other day on Dartmouth Road. Couldn’t be bothered to wait in the queue behind a scaffolding lorry turning right, so sped down the wong side of the road and almost clipped the lorry as it started its manoeuvre. In defence of the driver, he did complete his suicide manouver with his hand firmly in his horn so everyone could see what a dangerous prat he was being!
No amount of 20 mph speed signs are ever going to make a blind bit of difference to him and others like him 
P lease report the driver to your local SNT team, time, date regards, type of car and actions. They will act. Reporting it on here is great but nothing will happen.
If you are tired of this blatant idiocy then report it.
Why counter-productive? From the council document in the link:
The primary function of a 20mph zone is to reduce speed throughout and
hence the number and severity of road traffic casualties. In 2008 a report
commissioned by Transport for London regarding 20mph zones in London
included amongst its conclusions that: “On average, between 1991 and 2006,
there has been a 1.7% decline in all casualties each year on London’s roads”
and “Historically, 20 mph zones in London have reduced overall casualties
within (20mph) zones by 42% above this background decline.”
Enforcement of this is going to be interesting. Very much like the new points and fines for mobile phone usage. During my epic coffee morning at St. David’s the person I was with and I noticed a lot of drivers using mobile phones on the South Circular so decided to count them. 26 in 5 minutes.
The message just is not getting through.
BTW, for any of the SNT having a look. Coffee at St. Davids and enforcing the law. Seems like a winner to me! 
Yes indeed but I think that the council’s focus is on nudging behaviour rather than beating a big stick whether they had the resources for that or not. This needs to be seen in the context of local road environment enhancement plans, see here for instance:
Context is everything. I just wish it could happen faster so that this was more obvious.
A post was merged into an existing topic: 20mph speed limit rollout by Lewisham Council (effective September 2016)
I am going to guess that the 42% is a proportion of the 1.7%. Lazy (or naughty) use of stats from TfL there.
Well without guessing it doesn’t look like it:
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/20-mph-zones-and-road-safety-in-london.pdf
Agreed, that is precisely my point. It doesn’t matter if the borough average reduces by 1mph if the casualties are reduced by targeting the most dangerous areas.
Think we need some cleanup here to keep this thread on @anon64893700’s original topic of Community Speed Watch. I’ll act after 7 votes.
0 voters