20mph speed limit rollout by Lewisham Council (effective September 2016)

Yep, phone in one hand balanced on wheel having a great old chat. Car all over the road. I was so shocked I didnt even get her registration.

Also saw the lady in a white Nissan Qashqai who I stopped whilst going down Manor Mount about a week ago. Sailed straight through a red light at the Esso station this morning. I waved at her again. She gave me the finger. Her daughter (about six) must be sooooooo proud.

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On the first occasion I stopped next to her, one of a number of people who did and asked why she thought it was OK to drive the wrong way down a one way street. She told me she “would accept my criticism as I didnt matter to her”. That is when I noticed her daughter standing in the back of the car, no seat belt.

I left her with “I dont matter to you and it appears neither does your daughter”.

Massive swearing as I drove off.

The sad thing is it is an almost daily occurrence to see driving like this. People just do not care anymore.

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I’m not sure many people welcome honest feedback on their driving, whether from professionals, friends or strangers.

It’s one thing when you have some lazy habits, but quite another when you’re going the wrong way down a one-way street with a child in the back standing up. That person should be prosecuted.

Now, has this strayed off-topic slightly? Maybe I can bring it back on track by mentioning the charming woman who undertook me in her Polo just before Adelaide Ave approaching Brockley the other day once the bus lane was available. I wound up sitting beside her at the lights and since we both had our windows down, I politiely enquired whether she was was aware that the speed limit there is now 20mph. “Get a f&£king life” was her response.

Sadly I think the only feedback she’ll accept will come from the boys in blue and will be a lot more expensive and disruptive for her.

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Zipcar membership very helpful for this, and much less expensive than owning a car.

Agreed, Zipcar was great when I was a member. We sometimes did struggle to find last-minute availability of cars around us in HOP though. And if I got stuck in traffic and tried to extend the booking, occasionally this would fail because there was an adjacent booking… leading to panic! :fearful:

“Whose side you’re on”

That’s exactly the problem here. Amongst non-drivers (and perhaps the council staff that authorised the 20mph limits) there will be a lack of understanding of the counter-productive consequences of this policy.

And the “them vs us” tone of your comment suggests an ideological attitude against drivers. A lot of Lewisham residents rely on vehicles for their work. Or have legitimate reasons to use them outside work.

I’m also against drink driving. Is that ideological? Don’t be such a snowflake

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Post of the year so far. Sorry Chris :slight_smile:

I remember a lot of speculation about why the new speed limit was counter-productive, but I don’t remember any evidence. Can someone point me to some?

Aside from the environmental impact and congestion from keeping cars on the road for up to 33% longer, some recent statistics don’t look good for 20 mph limits:

Although in this case the overall casualties went down (as they did across the country in a more general trend).

It would be interesting to see a study that looked into the impact on lifesaving ambulances and police cars of being stuck in traffic caused by 20mph limits too. And deaths via the pollution impact.

I think the consensus of studies is that traffic calming works:
http://www.rospa.com/faqs/detail/?id=246

Our press love to highlight any studies that are outliers. Sorry @anon5422159

I suppose 20mph signs are probably better use of Council funds than this from my hometown Southend-on-Sea:

:sob:

If this is actually true, their entire procurement department should be fired for not calling a halt to this purchase long before it got to the contract stage.

I say ‘if’ because, as a financial and business journalist, I’m very sceptical of these ‘cost’ figures that get bandied about. As for the £100,000 statutory penalty - source?

It may be worth noting that the site is a spoof site.
The photograph is probably real, but I have my doubts about Councillor Guusfat, the £25,000 price tag, and Southend.

Still, no worse than quoting The Canary, Breitbart, or The Express.

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I think if we dog into the casualty figures quite a lot of the casualties where causes by drivers not sticking to the 20mph limit. I will try and dig out the report. Also any emergency vehicle is not subject to the limit so he it 20 or 30 mph they can still get through traffic where possible. Lastly, I cannot think of many areas around here where you can do more than 20 mph due to the sheer weight of traffic. Doesn’t stop people though, I keep checking that someone hasn’t changed our 20 mph sign to a 60 mph one as most drivers seem to do that.

Thanks for the response, @anon5422159. I seem to remember that the average traffic speed in London is less that 20 mph, so the 20 mph limit would likely reduce pollution due to a reduction in accelerating and braking behaviour.

I’ve posted before about this. The issue isn’t the 20mph limit - it’s the enforcement (or lack thereof) and the fact that on single roads we now have a two-tier speed system. On the one hand, people travelling at 20 - a decent speed on most roads in SE23; on the other hand, people travelling in excess of 30.

I agree with Chris - conventional cars travelling at 20 will pollute more than a car travelling at 30. They’re on the road for longer to cover the same distance, which means the engine is running for longer. These limits are environmentally costly (as, incidentally are speed bumps which encourage speeding up and slowing down) but they’re not about reducing pollution, are they?

If you hit someone at 20, they’re much less likely to be killed or seriously injured than at 30 or 40mph (though I’d prefer not to hit anyone at all). And for that reason, 20 is a good idea. Theoretically it should also help with congestion with the theory being that traffic should flow better for speed being regulated rather than stopping and starting, but I don’t think that London traffic flows at all well (that’s to do with road layouts and the plethora of traffic lights we have).

More vulnerable road users should, again in theory, be better off. 20 isn’t that much faster than most regular cyclists will be travelling and there’s less chance of a knock / sideswipe with cars going more slowly.

To my mind the problem is that the borough-by-borough piecemeal implementation has (as ever) been a bonanza for those who sell traffic signs and road paint, but there has been little or no education of the driving population about what they should be doing and why. It’s not often you’ll hear me say it, but I think someone needs to spend a lot more money on marketing and advertising in this case. And it needs to be co-ordinated across London.

Just painting numbers on the road isn’t enough - we need to change the perception of speed so that going too fast in your car is considered as anti-social and unacceptable as drinking and driving.

Maybe worth another thread, but I like the honesty and transparency of the mayor in Paris, who openly admits that the objective there is to reduce the number of cars on the road by 50% rather than hiding behind a fig leaf of safety.

That’s admirable honesty.

[obvious point regarding population growth and congestion redacted]

@moderators - this seems to be an overtly political point (and an example of correlation without apparent causation). Should this be edited / moved?

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But it could also be said that in having to accelerate to 30mph you are using more fuel and also causing more pollution in doing so. But then I drive a bunny kissing tree hugging Volvo so feel smug at many differing speeds :slight_smile: